More Predictable Than the Weather: “It’s Cold in winter – there is no Global Warming”

December 9, 2013

Unseasonably warm falls keep pushing back the season for the “Where’s global warming” spots on Fox News.  F-4 Tornadoes in November tend to mitigate against the popular right wing meme.
But now we’re actually getting some winter weather, look for the inevitable “ah stuck mah haid outsahd, an’ it wuz snowin’, so there cain’t be no glow-bull warmin’”.

Below, Jerry Meehl of the National Center for Atmospheric Research discusses temp records, low and high.

 

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73 Responses to “More Predictable Than the Weather: “It’s Cold in winter – there is no Global Warming””


  1. The funny part is when some denier points to a massive snowfall and says “WHAT global warming?!”…

    and doesn’t realize the irony, that only WARMER air could carry so much additional moisture to create the snowfall, and the warmth had to come from somewhere.

    And then it hits you:  the average member of the public has neither the background knowledge of these simple facts, nor the intelligence to put them together.  The denialist nonsense, so easily debunked with a bit of thought, will be taken completely seriously by great masses of society.  That’s when the laughter stops, and you go “damn, we’re screwed aren’t we?”

    • dumboldguy Says:

      E-Pot finally makes a comment that I can agree with nearly totally. I see two main factors behind the fact that we DO appear to be “screwed”.

      One is the massive amount of money and energy being poured into the denialist campaign to misinform, mislead, and confuse the “great masses”.

      The other is the fact that the more conservative end of the “great masses” suffers from motivated reasoning and cognitive dissonance—-they don’t WANT to believe AGW is a problem, therefore they suck up the denialist horsepucky as truth.


      • It is sad, but obvious, when people will not face the truth. It is too bad that dumboldguy , when he says: “One is the massive amount of money and energy being poured into the denialist campaign to misinform, mislead, and confuse the “great masses”. Can’t interview some of the people freezing their rears off while skidding around in his anthropogenic global warming. Get real, if you can, dumboldguy.

        “Great Falls probably the coldest place on earth on Saturday
        People in Great Falls were in one of the coldest places in the world on Saturday night.
        According to Victor Proton, senior meteorologist at the National Weather Service office in Glasgow, the coldest place in Montana was Great Falls.
        “I can’t officially say that the coldest place on Earth was Great Falls, but in the Northern Hemisphere, it’s pretty close,” Proton said.
        About 130 miles northeast of Great Falls, Proton said temperatures of 43 degrees below zero were reported at the Edgar G. Obie Airport in Chinook.
        Fort Peck was 37 below on Saturday, he said. The town in Valley County shattered its previous Dec. 7, record of minus 27, set in 1956.”
        http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/great-falls-probably-the-coldest-place-on-earth-on-saturday/article_3213dad0-6391-5aac-ace3-cab5fee9a287.html

        • dumboldguy Says:

          JD Stonehead says “It is sad, but obvious, when people will not face the truth”.
          I agree. Too bad JD doesn’t seek truth and tell us about it rather than spout more denialist horsepucky. Today he is pushing “since Great Falls MT may have had a new record low, the planet is not warming and AGW isn’t happening”, and that is a denialist argument at about the intellectual level of a 12-year-old.

          Perhaps JD would like to hear about a “truth HE can face”. The fact that of some 15,000 new high and low record temperatures set in the continental U.S. last year, ~12,000 were new highs and ~3,000 were new lows.

          If I was to interview interview the folks who experienced those 15,000 record temps, 4 out of 5 (12,000 out of 15,000, that’s 80%, JD) would have been complaining about overheated rear ends, not freezing ones. Get real, if you can, JD,—-although the tenor of your postings on Crock leads me to think that you are out of touch with reality (VERY far out of touch).


          • dumboldguy,whose name should be something more descriptive but I am not going to get a stupid war of words with an unarmed person. I use my real name while some that are so unsure of their positions go by names like “dumboldguy” because, I’m sure, they do not want their neighbors to know just how stupid they are.

            Dumboldguy comes up with some preposterous claim with NO supporting evidence and that is the way the delusional alarmist operate. “The fact that of some 15,000 new high and low record temperatures set in the continental U.S. last year, ~12,000 were new highs and ~3,000 were new lows” Am I to just take your word for this dumboldguy? Given your propensity to not tell the TRUTH, I think not.

            Note dumboldguy that one of the most dishonest people I can think of, other than you, made this comment:
            “2012 was ninth warmest year on record with temperatures significantly above long-term average
            Average global surface temperature in 2012 was 0.56C warmer than the average for the period 1951 to 1980The average global surface temperature in 2012 was 0.56C warmer than the average for the period 1951 to 1980 and, overall, the year was nominally the ninth warmest on record, although it was barely indistinguishable in rank from several other years, said James Hansen, director of Nasa’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York.”

            dumboldguy! Present some rational comment to back up you contentions and cut the blathering nonsense reserved for trolls. Why do you think that saying nothing at all comprehensible advances your cause? That seems to be the “alarmist” way. You could start on a new endeavor to tell the truth by explaining why these temperature records still stand in the warming world of your imagination.

            I find these FACTS to be of great interest considering how this desire of the alarmist to purport that the earth is burning up and has a bad fever. If that is true, then why do these temperatures, some of which were set 131 years ago, still stand?
             What follows are world record high temperatures:
            World (Africa) El Azizia, Libya; Sept. 13, 1922, (136F):
            North America (U.S.), Death Valley, Calif.; July 10, 1913 (134F);
            Asia; Tirat Tsvi, Israel, June 21, 1942, (129F):
            Australia ,Cloncurry, Queensland; Jan. 16, 1889 (128F):
            Europe, Seville, Spain,Aug. 4, 1881 (122F):
            South America, Rivadavia, Argentina; Dec. 11, 1905 (120F):
            Canada,Midale and Yellow Grass, Saskatchewan, Canada; July 5, 1937 (113F):
            Oceania;Tuguegarao, Philippines, April 29, 1912 (108F):
            Persian Gulf (sea-surface): Aug. 5, 1924 (96F):
            Antarctica; Vanda Station, Scott Coast, Jan. 5, 1974 (59F):
            South Pole, Dec. 27, 1978, (7.5F).
            Highest average annual mean temperature (world): Dallol, Ethiopia (Oct. 1960 Dec. 1966), 94° F.
            Longest hot spell (world): Marble Bar, W. Australia, 100° F (or above) for 162 consecutive days, Oct. 30, 1923 to Apr. 7, 1924. Notice anything regarding the dates of these records? Anyone heard of the dust bowl & wasn’t that in the 30s
            http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001375.html
             This link shows the same temperatures except for what I present below:
            http://www.worldfactsandfigures.com/weather_extremes.php

            This is interesting, at least to me because it shows that even temperature records can be changed after standing for years but note that none have been broken recently.

            “On 13 September 1922, a temperature of 58°C (136.4°F) was purportedly recorded at El Azizia (approximately 40 kilometers south-southwest of Tripoli) in what is now modern-day Libya…………. The WMO assessment is that the highest recorded surface temperature of 56.7°C (134°F) was measured on 10 July 1913 at Greenland Ranch (Death Valley) CA USA.”

            http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/BAMS-D-12-00093.1?af=R&

          • dumboldguy Says:

            Stonehead is certainly riled up and out to “get” me today, isn’t he? By the way, for those of you who may not know why I call him “stonehead”, it comes from the name he apparently used in the past on this site rather than his own—jdouglashuahin. JD lives in Huahin, which literally translates as “rock head”, as in peninsula. Although it probably refers to some geographical feature in Thailand, I do believe that it is also fitting to use it in its anglicized form for Mr. Swallow, since he DID use it rather than his “correct” name and it IS fitting, although he would lecture the rest of us about not using “real” names. ‘Fess up, JD—are jdouglashuahin and John Douglas Swallow the same person or not? I myself find it hard to believe that there are two J Douglas “whatevers” posting here, but will apologize if I’m wrong.

            Martin Lack had this to say about jdouglashuahin’s comments some 18 months ago on Martin’s website. Apparently, JD WAS of some help in prompting Martin to do some writing. Said Martin—
            “In view of various unbelievably long and incoherent comments made by someone called jdouglashuahin on Climate Denial Crock of the Week (this and this being just the tips of a couple of very large icebergs), I am going to devote the whole of this week to the subject of China”.

            “Unbelievably long AND incoherent”. Yup, that sounds like our JD! Just look at this comment, for example, (and try to ignore his juvenile ad hominems (“battle of wits with the unarmed”?, and “don’t want their neighbors to know how stupid they are”?).

            JD talks about ME making “some preposterous claim with NO supporting evidence”? Is that worse than him making preposterous claims with tons of meaningless evidence that doesn’t support his claims?

            Now that I think about it, I may have mixed some data sets in saying “The fact that of some 15,000 new high and low record temperatures set in the continental U.S. last year, ~12,000 were new highs and ~3,000 were new lows”. The 15,000 may have been just highs and just for one month (it was a record), and the 4 to 1 ratio may refer to some other data set. No matter—JD is a big Googler—he can explore the topic further if he cares to. I will not waste the time to try to educate someone who appears ineducable. Here’s another “claim” he can explore. The ratio of record highs to record lows used to be very close to 1 to 1 in the 1950′s—that ratio has progressively changed decade by decade since then until it has reached over 2 record highs for every record low since 2000. Is that not an indicator of warming, JD?


          • Ok, you argue with him. I need a break. Just like to add that it is summer in Australia now. You know what that means? The other half of the globe is very hot when we are cold. OMG, there’s another Nobel prize! But what is the average temperature if the other half is warm, when we are cold? Such confusion! Australians have to argue with deniers in June.


          • So, “dumboldguy” , AKA “Stupid old mentally deranged fool” what is your name? You can waste all of this time on my name, that is John Douglas Swallow and I go by Doug Swallow. What is your name, Piece of “old deranged ignorant dung” comes to mind after reading your stupid post that have no scientific verification, what so ever, and that is the norm for folks like you. You offer up a totally stupid, as your name implies, answer to my challenge to you to produce an empirically documented research effort that explains HOW your idiotic assertion that a trace gas that makes up .040% o0f the total atmosphere of the earth can have the devastating consequences that you imagine; but, that is taking into account that you have no education regarding this is issue, and it shows. “I likely won’t live long enough to see the results of this “experiment”. If you do, I am sure that you won’t accept it, even if you live in Miami and end up under 20 feet of water with daveburton.” Prove it, dunce. You can not and will not but you will continue to put out this type of trash. ask for the mathematical derivation of CO2 forcing while you are at provide me with for the mathematical derivation of CO2 forcing. That is another question for which, among many, that you will have no answer for from a scientifically illiterate individual such as your self . Just so that we can get this back onto what it was meant to be, a discussion of science and not someone’s name, answer me this regarding the evidence that that I presented to you and the other dunces on this thread.
            Hadley Centre Central England Temperature (HadCET) dataset
            The CET dataset is the longest instrumental record of temperature in the world. The mean, minimum and maximum datasets are updated monthly, with data for a month usually available by the 3rd of the next month. A provisional CET value for the current month is calculated on a daily basis. The mean daily data series begins in 1772 and the mean monthly data in 1659. Mean maximum and minimum daily and monthly data are also available, beginning in 1878.
            http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcet/
             
            Full Mauna Loa CO2 record
            http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/#mlo_full

            One would for sure not expect dip dungs like you to understand what is being present here, would they?

          • dumboldguy Says:

            Stonehead continues with his insane rantings about things he does not understand. He has added some “spice” to the garbage, however. Since he has no real arguments to present (except for meaningless temperature records for a flyspeck in the UK), and is getting frustrated, he resorts to ad hominem attacks, the sign of a sure loser. To wit, these are excerpted from the garbage heap that he just posted (I may have missed some but my stomach is protesting so I won’t go back for a second look)

            “dumboldguy” , AKA “Stupid old mentally deranged fool”
            Piece of “old deranged ignorant dung”
            totally stupid, as your name implies
            you have no education regarding this is issue
            dunce
            a scientifically illiterate individual such as your self
            the other dunces on this thread.
            dip dungs like you

            Stonehead is showing us here how little imagination and intellect he has, as well as what an ugly human being he really is, and I guess we should be thankful for his honesty there. What do you think, all you “other dunces on this thread”?


          • “Martin Lack had this to say about jdouglashuahin’s comments some 18 months ago on Martin’s website. Apparently, JD WAS of some help in prompting Martin to do some writing. Said Martin—”
            “In view of various unbelievably long and incoherent comments made by someone called jdouglashuahin on Climate Denial Crock of the Week (this and this being just the tips of a couple of very large icebergs), I am going to devote the whole of this week to the subject of China”.

            So anyway, dumboldguy, you are really dredging up the past here. While Martin Lack has NEVER been to China, I have been there on four separate occasions. How many times have you been to China? Never mind, any answer from you would be a total lie.

            “What is the deal here Martin? You have a totally irrelevant blog site that receives maybe four visits a month and you are giving advice to Peter on how to run his site? Astounding but characteristic for you.”

            I am sorry that Peter did not allow people to get better acquainted with you because he did not allow the information about you that I presented here earlier but allows you to engage in unfettered and unsubstantiated character assassination of me . I’ll try it again in a different manner because people really need to know who you are.”

            An open letter to Richard Lindzen
            with 166 comments
            ” ……….I blew my chance to ask a question.”
            http://lackofenvironment.wordpress.com/2012/02/28/an-open-letter-to-richard-lindzen/#comments

            After receiving all of the comments calling you a purveyor of untrue statements, you even have to exacerbate the dilemma by going over to Judith Curry’s blog and bothering her with your deceptive ways.
            Martin Lack February 28, 2012 at 9:31 am | Reply
            “Dear Judith,
            With respect to you, and all your readers, I was there. In an attempt to address one of the many misrepresentations or omissions of relevant facts, i was prevented from actually asking a question.”
            Eddy | February 28, 2012 at 5:29 pm | Reply
            Brilliant
            Mr Lack did seem somewhat blinded by his own genius. Still I suppose the dimmest bulb will dazzle if you are close enough.
            http://judithcurry.com/2012/02/27/lindzens-seminar-at-the-house-of-commons/

            Published on Mar 7, 2012 by globalclimatedebate

            Martin begins his QUESTION at 05:30
            People need to know just what kind of a person you are, Martin, and the more you attempt to attack me will more clearly show them who you TRULY are.”

            So, what else, “stupid old guy” AKA “dumboldguy” do you wish to dredge up?

          • dumboldguy Says:

            Stonehead asks “So, what else, “stupid old guy” AKA “dumboldguy” do you wish to dredge up?”

            Nothing at all, Stonehead. You are doing such a fine job of “dredging up”material from that cesspool you call a brain and showing us your true colors that I wouldn’t think of interrupting you by making suggestions. That would be like farting in church in the middle of the sermon (something you probably do often and think to be funny).

        • skeptictmac57 Says:

          Even a desert can have a flash flood. That doesn’t average out to it being an oasis.

          • dumboldguy Says:

            Have you checked that assertion out with JD? If JD wants to “interpret” an occasional flash flood in a desert as being equivalent to an oasis, then he will simply declare it as “truth” and expect us all to accept it. That’s what motivated reasoning is all about, and JD is nothing if not a motivated reasoner.


          • Precisely, one event proves a generalization. One measurement on the globe equals global temperature. And if he debates you and comes up with enough temperature records, he wins. And that’s how you measure global temperature. That’s if he doesn’t change subject.

    • fortranprog Says:

      I have faith in the average member of the public for recognising and accepting truth. I believe that the average person is just far too busy in his or her life to pay much attention to the issue. It is up to the climate scientists, politicians, businesses and independent media to educate the public (and counter the misinformation vested interest groups/media). I believe once the public have the full facts they have the intelligence to understand the issue perfectly. Thankfully Peter and people like him are unselfishly contributing to the spreading of information. It is governments together with industry that can tackle it, but the elected governments need a strong mandate from the public to be motivated to do it.

      • fortranprog Says:

        I forgot teachers, education and schools – I suspect the next generation will be much more accepting of climate science than the present, and hopefully we will act in time.

  2. kingdube Says:

    How do you square that with: it isn’t snowing, it’s just unseasonably cold.

    If you asked me that I would ascribe it to weather variability – as with storm Sandy and the recent storm in the Philippines.

    • dumboldguy Says:

      Idiot!

      • jpcowdrey Says:

        kingdube isn’t an idiot. He is a genius at filtering out information he doesn’t like. As when Gerry Meehl says the present two to one ratio of warm records to cold is a trend imposed on natural weather variability. K-tube doesn’t want to hear that, so he doesn’t. Human, all too human.


    • You didn’t watch the video, did you? I hope that’s why you totally missed the boat, because if you DID watch, and STILL missed it, then, well…

      It’s not even remotely difficult to get the concept of trends being different than noise.


      • Peter I’m slightly disappointed.
        You could at least gave us a clip of the Fox news moron report for a little bit of humor.

        Actually I have a legitimate request. A new interview with Jennifer Francis third author on the latest report in Nature Climate change called “Extreme summer weather in northern mid-latitudes link to a banishing Cryoshere.”
        http://www.nature.com/nclimate/journal/vaop/ncurrent/pdf/nclimate2065.pdf

        it’s an extremely interesting read!


      • NB:  It’s unreasonable to ask people to watch videos for information.  Video is a linear medium and very slow.  If you expect people to use a resource for information, it should be text.  The text can be a transcript of the video, but it MUST be text.

        • dumboldguy Says:

          Perhaps E-Pot is such a fast reader and has such a prodigious intellect that he can scan a page and comprehend it all in just a few seconds. There are many different learning styles, and different people do best employing different modes. Studies of learning have shown that, in general, listening alone is not as good as seeing alone for most people, and using both modes at the same time is better than either alone. And of course, for tasks, being told how to do it and seeing someone do it is not as good as actually doing the task yourself.

          Yes, video IS linear and slower than the “all-seeing instant scan” , but it DOES add a visual component on top of the spoken word, and good editing (such as we see from Peter here on Crock) moves things along a bit more rapidly. Besides, it’s more FUN—what do you do for fun, E-Pot?


          • Perhaps E-Pot is such a fast reader and has such a prodigious intellect that he can scan a page and comprehend it all in just a few seconds.

            Perhaps dumboldguy lives up to his nom de guerre and reads more slowly than he listens.  Maybe he also has a sensory deficit and can rewind and re-watch in a video faster than he can jump back and forth in a few pages of text to review details and consolidate his understanding.

            The typical holder of a degree in STEM, law or a bunch of other fields is the exact opposite.  There’s also the little detail that search engines won’t pull up relevant pieces of speech from a video for you.  On the other hand, properly formatted transcripts are search-engine magnets.

            video IS linear and slower than the “all-seeing instant scan” , but it DOES add a visual component on top of the spoken word, and good editing (such as we see from Peter here on Crock) moves things along a bit more rapidly.

            I don’t have 20 minutes to watch someone say what I could read in 5.

            Besides, it’s more FUN—what do you do for fun, E-Pot?

            Watching television isn’t part of it.  I spent enough time being bored out of my skull in K-12 to volunteer for more of it as an adult.

          • dumboldguy Says:

            E-Pot again displays his arrogance and human relations skills deficit with this comment about my reading abilities and “sensory deficits”. I read, listen, see, and analyze data at a rather high level, E-Pot, as you might to be able to figure out if you weren’t so wrapped up in yourself (SBAN, E-Pot).

            Of course, I AM getting old and slowing down a bit, but I think I do pretty well for a guy who remembers FDR. All those skills were needed for the job I spent my working years at, and I do have some “proof” of my reading abilities in particular. Back in undergrad college, the language arts/reading department in the school of education offered a reading test battery to students in other majors so that their students could get “practice” giving it and scoring it (under supervision). It was quite comprehensive and required quite a few hours over several days to complete. It was also something that would have cost a fair amount of money if one paid to have it administered by a professional reading specialist and there were some hot chicks over there, so I took the battery and also got to meet them. I scored in the 99th. percentile in all areas but one, in which I got a 98. (I did NOT do nearly that well in Calculus).

            Peter’s posts are not meant to be as highly technical as some of the things you may see on a site like SkS (although things do start out at a more “popular” level there and the depth appears in the comments). Some Crock posts do go into more detail than others, but links are usually provided for those who want to pursue things in greater depth. I come here because it’s more FUN than other climate sites—wide ranging topics, very well-done videos, links to more details if desired, and intelligent commentary (from nearly all). I do think it’s a bit “snarky” of you to climb on your high horse and DEMAND that Peter change a format that works very well for all the rest of us here. If you don’t like it, simply stop visiting Crock (you won’t be missed). Or do some googling and find your own transcript of the video if it exists.

            “The typical holder of a degree in STEM, law or a bunch of other fields is the exact opposite”, says E-Pot. The exact opposite of WHAT, E-Pot? I myself have degrees in STEM, some training in law and a “bunch of other fields”, and used all of that on the job. I know exactly what you are trying to say here. I had to do much quick data gathering through many means, analyze it (and synthesize), and act on it.

            When asked “what do you do for fun, E-Pot?”, E-Pot first states rather condescendingly “I don’t have 20 minutes to watch someone say what I could read in 5″ and simply says “Watching television isn’t part of (his fun)”, as if the videos on Crock are merely “television”. I still wonder what E-Pot does for “fun” (and does he even have a sense of humor and can he laugh?). I had a 9th. grade Algebra teacher (single female) who once told us she sat in front of the fire and “factored for fun”. From looking at the body of his comments over time, I suspect E-Pot runs search engines for fun, madly looking through transcripts to find data (that he can often misuse and always attempt to beat us to death with).

            The final arrogance is “I spent enough time being bored out of my skull in K-12 to volunteer for more of it as an adult”. Did nothing K-12 EVER interest you? Did going to college suddenly “turn on the lights” for you? I’ll bet your teachers just loved having you in class and had a nickname for you.


          • Dumboldguy; I have a challenge for you and since you are so in love with your self and JUST know that you are the smartest person on earth, the challenge should not be difficult for you to provide an answer to. I presented the same challenge to Christopher Arcus but he declined to provide an answer and I know that you, being so gifted with being omniscient, will have no problem providing me with the answer I seek.

            “I have a challenge for you: I ask you to provide me with the experiment that shows that CO2 does what you maintain as far as being the driver of the earth’s climate.” 
            http://climatecrocks.com/2013/12/04/coals-peak-has-passed/comment-page-1/#comment-35335

          • dumboldguy Says:

            Stonehead (HinHua or HuaHin or whatever that name was you used a way back on this thread that literally meant “stone” and “head”—speaking of not using “real”names)

            The only challenge you pose for me is to NOT lower my IQ too much by spending too much time reading your blatherings. Christopher is doing a fine job of speaking to them, and if he has not met that challenge, it will likely be for the same reason that I won’t either.

            The answer is easy—-we are engaged in a now 200+ year old planet-wide “experiment” showing that excessive man-made CO2 does in fact drive the Earth’s climate. It is not finished by any means, but the evidence to date makes the vast majority of climate scientists and other intelligent folks think it’s happening (Latest IPCC confidence figure is 95%). I likely won’t live long enough to see the results of this “experiment”. If you do, I am sure that you won’t accept it, even if you live in Miami and end up under 20 feet of water with daveburton. (You can only hold your breath and deny truth for so long, though).


          • Some deniers are slow. What makes you think they read?


          • “Of course, I AM getting old and slowing down a bit, but I think I do pretty well for a guy who remembers FDR.”  Do you remember this about FDR, “old stupid one”?
            “He questioned the value of the deficit spending that had not reduced unemployment and only added debt:[7]
            “We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong … somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises. … I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. … And an enormous debt to boot.”[13]”
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Morgenthau,_Jr.
             
            If you do not trust Wikipedia, dumboldguy, then maybe the original will satisfy you.
             
            “In face, so many people contacted the Library of Congress trying to find the source that one of the congressional librarians contacted Hillsdale College in order to track down the exact citation. Naysayers who searched only in the congressional record alledged that the quote was a fabrication. Below is a link to photocopies of the first six pages of Morgenthau’s transcript from May 9, 1939. The entire meeting is over twenty pages and can be found at the FDR Library, Small Collections, Morgenthau Diary, Roll #50.”
            See Morgenthau Quote by Clicking HERE
            http://www.burtfolsom.com/?p=1217
             

            I assume that this is the FDR that you remember.

          • dumboldguy Says:

            Nope, that’s not the FDR I remember. Did you have a good time googling that meaningless crap? Martin was right about your “long and incoherent” rants. This one is just more proof.


  3. […] Unseasonably warm falls keep pushing back the season for the "Where's global warming" spots on Fox News. F-4 Tornadoes in November tend to mitigate against the popular right wing meme. But now we'…  […]

  4. kingdube Says:

    There’s a new breed of denialist.

    They are the ones who refuse to recognize that the Earth has “naturally” turned the temperature corner.

    We’re on or way to cooling.

    And it’s high-time for you Alarmists to think to begin to carp about Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Cooling.

    • dumboldguy Says:

      King Dumb is the one who said “ah stuck mah haid outsahd, an’ a bird done pooped in mah ah, so I cain’t see nothin’about what the weather is a-doin’ raht now”. But that won’t stop KD from spouting silliness.

      Too bad that King Dupe isn’t aware that most climate scientiists think that we WERE on our way to cooling because of those “natural” cycles, but that AGW seems to have postponed the onset of the next ice age.

      And it’s high-time for King DUH “to think to begin to carp about” (if that means what I think it means) the impact on the world of Catastrophic Dubogenic Global Idiocy.


      • Our Kingdube is an erstwhile climate “scientist”. Add your chuckle to http://bobtisdale.wordpress.com/2013/11/11/new-study-climate-system-is-only-about-half-as-sensitive-to-increasing-co2-as-previously-believed/ – read the comments. It’s a popcorn moment.

        • skeptictmac57 Says:

          Funny to see them attacking (however gently) Spencer because he actually acknowledges that Co2 has any positive climate sensitivity. The ones who claim it has negative CS had me shaking my head.How weird!


      • look out, swallow is coming to challenge doobie for ultimate denier goofball. Besides, doosie was getting a little too easy pickins for you fox, ah mean Clem.

        • dumboldguy Says:

          “look out, swallow is coming to challenge doobie for ultimate denier goofball. Besides, doosie was getting a little too easy pickins for you fox, ah mean Clem”.

          LOL IMO “Swallow” has a way to go before he can wrest the “ultimate goofball” crown from The Dube—The Dube is one of a kind. I see “Swallow” as more of a challenger to daveburton at this time, and the crown they are tussling over is the “say insane things while trying to sound sober” crown.


          • Fer a dumboldguy your purdy sharp. Yeah, kdub is kinda kdum. You need to converse with a wittier crowd to get some mental exercise. You are better at Gish gallop. I get bored with it. Doug changed his name. How cute. He actually cited Einstein in a Gish gallop. Can’t figure out how he got there. Thanks for the tip about jdouglashuahin changing his handle. Do they change their names so they can recycle the same dreck. Gotta admit, though. Daveyboy got me slightly interested in his, water cools when you heat it because of evaporation. He’s not sure which process wins, heating or evaporation, but he should find out any day now and submit a paper. At least the thermodynamics is interesting. Geothermal exothermy is a dumb comment, but calculating heat flux density is fun. Figuring out that central England is not the earth, that’s not so exciting.

          • dumboldguy Says:

            “Daveyboy should find out any day now and submit a paper”, you say? Have you not noticed that Dave does not submit papers? He selects and assembles other people’s work. Submitting a paper would expose Dave to serious peer review, and he can’t even survive the “reviews” we do of his stuff here. The only “paper” I have been able to find of Dave’s is that regression analysis foolishness that he posted as a comment to a report on a REAL paper (or at least it was an on-line paper).

            PS I think it was JD Stonehead that said central England was the earth. (And that’s not true?—-I get so confused sometimes).


          • “CBS NEWS/AP December 10, 2013, 3: 13 PM
            Antarctic temperature hit record low
            According to new NASA satellite data, the mercury dipped to -135.8 degrees Fahrenheit in August 2010, and -135.3 degrees on July 31, 2013.
            Researchers called it “soul-crushing” cold. It’s so cold that most of the time researchers actually need to breathe through a snorkel that brings air into the coat through a sleeve and warms it up “so you don’t inhale by accident” the cold air, said ice scientist Ted Scambos, of the National Snow and Ice Data Center.
            http://www.cbsnews.com/news/antarctic-temperature-hit-record-low/

            “I have a challenge for you: I ask you to provide me with the experiment that shows that CO2 does what you maintain as far as being the driver of the earth’s climate.” 
            http://climatecrocks.com/2013/12/04/coals-peak-has-passed/comment-page-1/#comment-35335

          • greenman3610 Says:

            Starting now, I am no longer warning about posts that are too long.
            I will trash, or brutally edit them to my tastes.
            This site is not a repository for a bunch of Gish Gallop nonsense.
            And by the way, since I’ve interviewed Ted Scambos, I think I have a balanced idea of what his take on this news item is. i.e., The planet is warming.
            it still gets cold at the poles. From the article you cite:
            “While the reading is interesting, it doesn’t mean much in the grand scheme, said Waleed Abdalati, an ice scientist at the University of Colorado and NASA’s former chief scientist.

            Both Abdalati, who wasn’t part of the measurement team, and Scambos said this is likely an unusual random reading in a place that hasn’t been measured much before and could have been colder or hotter in the past and we wouldn’t know.

            “It does speak to the range of conditions on this Earth, some of which we haven’t been able to observe,” Abdalati said.”

          • dumboldguy Says:

            How about Burton Gallop nonsense?

            I speak of the mindless and endless repetition of the same tired non-arguments.

          • greenman3610 Says:

            one does not have to be right to post here.
            one does not have to be (always) polite to post here,
            (no flinging poo, no posting pics of your junk).
            but I am going to start enforcing brevity.
            as far as what’s too long – I know it when I see it.
            For those that can’t stand it when someone is wrong on the internet,
            I feel your pain – I’m grateful for those that do the work
            to knock this stuff down, but I think, for now, that’s part of the
            mission.
            I said, “for now”.

          • dumboldguy Says:

            Sounds good to me. Once BREVITY becomes a reality for daveburton, the Burton Gallop will become a much smaller problem for me. I’m getting tired of playing “Oregon Petition Ping Pong” and “Engineers Are Scientists Whack-A-Mole” with him—-he refuses to look at the scoreboard. Also, it’s becoming increasingly hard to come up with relevant, creative, and “elegant” insults to lay on him, and I would hate to have to resort to the kind of crudities we hear from Stonehead.


        • Here are some historical facts for you to consider Christopher Arcus.
          “In June, 1934 the entire country had triple digit heat. We didn’t come anywhere close to that this summer.”
          http://docs.lib.noaa.gov/rescue/mwr/062/mwr-062-06-0212.pdf
           
          ”Over the 11-year span from 1930-1940, a large part of the region saw 15% to 25% less precipitation than normal. This is very significant to see such a large deficit over such a long period of time. This translates to 50 to 60 inches of much needed moisture which never arrived that decade. For an area which only averages less than 20 inches of precipitation a year, deficits like this can make the region resemble a desert. Deficits like this are the equivalent of missing three entire years of expected precipitation in one decade. Figure 2 is a map of the precipitation departures from normal in terms of a percentage of normal (total precipitation divided by normal precipitation) for the Dust Bowl region for 1930 to 1940.”
          http://www.srh.noaa.gov/ama/?n=dust_bowl_verses_today

  5. dumboldguy Says:

    “….erstwhile climate scientist”, indeed. And yes, the comments (all 2 of them ARE a “popcorn moment”.

    The Dube wants to PUBLISH on TISDALE’S site? The same Bob Tisdale who has been referred to as “a bit odd”, “willful ignorance personified”, “The Google Galileo”, and (my favorite) “perennially puzzled Bob”. LOL The Dube and “perennially puzzled Bob” will be very comfortable sharing with each other their ignorance and puzzlement about climate change (as long as Bob doesn’t keep deleting the Dubes’ email address—LMAO)


  6. Christopher Arcus 
    “The other half of the globe is very hot when we are cold. OMG, there’s another Nobel prize!”
    No kidding, Tonto
    “Brazil – Snow in over 80 cities – Roads and schools closed”
     JULY 23, 2013 · 
    “Should greatly disrupt agriculture”
    The mass of polar air that passed through Argentina before coming to Brazil at the end of last week dropped snow in at least 87 cities of Paraná, Santa Catarina and Rio Grande do Sul.
    The cold wave, which reaches South, Southeast, Midwest, and up to two northern states of the country (Rondônia and Acre), is the longest in 13 years, according to the National Institute of Meteorology (Inmet).
    http://iceagenow.info/2013/07/brazil-snow-80-cities-roads-schools-closed/

    “Soul-crushing cold” – Antarctica sets record of -135.8
     DECEMBER 9, 2013 · 

    http://iceagenow.info/2013/12/soul-crushing-cold-antarctica-sets-record-135-8/


    • Hey swallow, nice to see you. You never responded to the other comment. Still smarting from your errors and trying to change the subject to avoid looking like asdlfjlak?:
      1. Coal fires producing CO2 before the industrial revolution. Curves of CO2 show nothing before 1800. you walked away from that one.
      2. Geothermal being the best thing since sliced bread for energy. You never gave a response to Engineer-Poet who told you that geothermal energy density was much less than solar, and its other limits, and it was not the panacea you claim.
      Man up and respond to him. Dont bother me with your response.
      3.How much backup is needed for wind power. Ugh. Reserves are more than 2x the load at 4AM. The grid and generation are sized for the peak annual load. So 95% of the time there are reserves sitting around idle. Does that make a scenario where utilities want to buy a lot more backup? No. I have cited a study with dozens of DOE references to this subject. I wont bother. You got one dubious report that some guy in Germany said… blah… blah… blah
      4. The I have been to many countries argument and coal is the only thing that can keep them from having unreliable power. Except that as greenman pointed out, gee, wasnt that a big power outage in India a while back?
      5. You say STOR used to backup renewables. Morin says STOR is used for large fossil fuel backup backup, not for solar or wind.
      6. But you countered, argue with the source. So he went back to the source and lo and behold. Poof! The source said you were wrong.
      The hits just keep on coming.
      Just leave the errors dangling and change the subject, eh?
      See, I dont see that as establishing your scientific credentials or reputation for accuracy and reliability. And I asked, what is it exactly you are ettempting to accomplish here? What effect do you think your posts have had on those people?
      So lets move to your present fiasco. You seem to think that if you just pick all the cold spots on the planet, that will make it colder. I thought you were sposed to pick all the spots and get an average. But no, lets just pick a few points. And a few days.
      Soul-crushing cold” – Antarctica sets record of -135.8
      DECEMBER 9, 2013 ·

      You unwittingly proved Peter’s assertion.

      Huge numbers of above average temperatures, but the first time theres snow, OMG, its cold, global warming is over.

      A battle of wits with an unarmed opponent you called it.

      Its
      Global
      Average
      Temperature.
      Measure all the points on all the days, and not cherry pick the ones you like. You are demonstrating how not to find the Global Average Temperature and how deniers cherry pick data. Thanks for the proof that deniers are not scientists.
      Is that what your purpose is here?


  7. Swallow. Oh your challenge. It was so lame, I forgot it. Yeah, so stack up the temperature from one point on earth vs co2. And that is supposed to prove GW is not real. At the risk of repeating, it’s global – a lot of data points geographically, average – a lot of data over time from many locations, temperature. There. I feel almost certain he’s got it now.
    The temperature dataset swallows chose was Hadcet, central England. Apparently that is the same as everywhere on the planet. Maybe central England is the whole planet.
    I guess I am wrong because of my, “inability to not understand”. Gish central is not the sharpest knife in the drawer. But he’s been to lotsa places. Wow. I didn’t realize I could skip my iq test and just write, been to lotsa places, inability to not understand.
    I don’t know dumblikeafox. Stone head sounds good. I like the poetic feel of swallowthisgish. New contest. Name the denier. We can make it a board game. I say sea level acceleration. You try to guess who I mean. Too easy. I knew you’d get it. Know it all? Any guesses? Why is it I feel so Monty Python whenever I talk to deniers. Sometimes it’s more Alice in Wonderland. No wonder Peter referenced the Red Queen.
    Any predictions as to how long swallows reply post will be?

    • dumboldguy Says:

      If his reply is two words long, that will be too long.

      Speaking of Alice in Wonderland, I think I may have posted this A in W quote before, but it has relevance now that “Stonehead, Davey and The Dube” (a great name for a band) have shown their true colors. Perhaps we should establish a “Duchess Award” (like the Darwin Awards), and award it each week to the one who makes the comment that best removes sanity from the comment pool?.

      “I quite agree with you,” said the Duchess; “and the moral of that is–’Be what you would seem to be’–or if you’d like it put more simply–’Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise.’”

      “I think I should understand that better,” Alice said very politely, “`if I had it written down: but I can’t quite follow it as you say it.”

      “That’s nothing to what I could say if I chose,” the Duchess replied, in a pleased tone.

      “Pray don’t trouble yourself to say it any longer than that,” said Alice.
      (Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland, Chapter 9)


    • Christopher Arcus: My challenge is not the only thing that you have forgotten. You wrote this whole line of normal trash, the norm for you, without ever supplying one bit of scientific evidence because you have shown that you have none to bring forth and are therefore nothing but an ignorant fraud, the same as your dumb old hero who does the same.

      This exemplifies your stupidity: “The temperature dataset swallows chose was Hadcet, central England. Apparently that is the same as everywhere on the planet. Maybe central England is the whole planet.” I know your world is very small and limited but this is what you obviously do not know about the HadCet data base. If you can come up with a better one, cut the BS and provide it.

      “Hadley Centre Central England Temperature (HadCET) dataset
      The CET dataset is the longest instrumental record of temperature in the world. The mean, minimum and maximum datasets are updated monthly, with data for a month usually available by the 3rd of the next month. A provisional CET value for the current month is calculated on a daily basis. The mean daily data series begins in 1772 and the mean monthly data in 1659. Mean maximum and minimum daily and monthly data are also available, beginning in 1878.
      Brief description of the data
      These daily and monthly temperatures are representative of a roughly triangular area of the United Kingdom enclosed by Lancashire, London and Bristol. The monthly series, which begins in 1659, is the longest available instrumental record of temperature in the world. The daily series begins in 1772. Manley (1953,1974) compiled most of the monthly series, covering 1659 to 1973. These data were updated to 1991 by Parker et al (1992), when they calculated the daily series. Both series are now kept up to date by the Climate Data Monitoring section of the Hadley Centre, Met Office. Since 1974 the data have been adjusted to allow for urban warming.”
      http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcet/

      I know from reading your insane nonsense that you do not have the ability to correlate the information above with this below:
      Recent Monthly Average Mauna Loa CO2
      August 2013:     395.15 ppm 
      August 2012:     392.41 ppm
        http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/

      • dumboldguy Says:

        Just like the Terminator, Stonehead is b-a-a-a-a-c-k to wreak havoc and try to destroy the thread with illogic. At least he is not quite as “ugly” today in his language, although “….you have none to bring forth and are therefore nothing but an ignorant fraud, the same as your dumb old hero who does the same” is not very pretty.

        Stonehead’s thinking is as lame as ever. He mindlessly keeps insisting that the temperature data from one small patch of earth in the UK has any significance re: AGW in spite of Christopher’s best efforts to disabuse him of his ignorance. And he wants to link it to Mauna Loa CO2? I am speechless over the willful ignorance he displays, and have O-Log to deal with, so I will leave Stonehead to Christopher (to wear as an albatross?).

        PS Have Stonehead and The Dube seen the news that it’s SNOWING IN EGYPT and Israel is getting buried in snow? (And it’s cold and snowing in VA too). Yes, Earth has definitely “turned the corner” into cooling.


    • Christopher Arcus: Is this far enough from the U.K.’s climatic research unit (CRU) for you to make any difference? 2000: Dr. David Viner, senior research scientist at the U.K.’s climatic research unit (CRU) of the University of East Anglia, proclaims that ‘within a few years winter snowfall will become “a very rare and exciting event…Children just aren’t going to know what snow is.” This shows the distorted and totally ignorant mind set of folks like you and old dumb.

      “2013: Middle East experiences worst snow storm since 1953.
      13 Dec 2013
      ‘Historic’ snow storms spread havoc and misery across the Middle East
      The worst snow storms since 1953 have caused chaos in Israel and the Palestinian territories and exacerbated an already severe crisis among Syrian refugees”
      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/10516498/Historic-snow-storms-spread-havoc-and-misery-across-the-Middle-East.html

      “Snow closes roads in Israel, is a source of wonder in Egypt”
      http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-snow-israel-egypt-20131213,0,1691393.story#ixzz2nXhTlPFS

      I doubt that you have the ability to be able to make this map function; but, should you be able to do so, let me know if both you and Dr. David Viner still share that same delusional frame of mind.
      Global Maps

      Snow Cover
      http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/GlobalMaps/view.php?d1=MOD10C1_M_SNOW


  8. Replying to DOG’s comment up here:

    I do think it’s a bit “snarky” of you to climb on your high horse and DEMAND that Peter change a format that works very well for all the rest of us here.

    I’m not asking him to change HIS format.  I’m asking him for text.  I’m sure that most, if not all, of his technically-detailed source material is text and static graphics, not video.  All he has to do is link that.

    Or do some googling and find your own transcript of the video if it exists.

    Right, I should spend however long watching hour upon hour of videos, many of which cover material I’ve already seen elsewhere in greater depth, so I can figure out which particular things he’s referring to.  Then, maybe, I can dig to verify those references.  Maybe I should just slit my wrists first, achieving the same end with less trouble?

    Serious academic material is (a) text, with (b) footnotes and endnotes.  There’s a reason for this.

    If you don’t like it, simply stop visiting Crock (you won’t be missed).

    I’m sure you’d like your little echo chamber back.  The problem is that the ideas of the echo chamber have failed spectacularly, and you need to break out of the rut to be effective.  I’m not here to be liked, I’m here to help get things done.

    I still wonder what E-Pot does for “fun” (and does he even have a sense of humor and can he laugh?).

    One thing I did for fun a few years back was ponder a whole-hog restructuring of the US energy infrastructure to make it carbon-negative (note that several of the graphics have succumbed to link-rot).  And of course I have a sense of humor.  I need one to deal with the likes of you.

    • dumboldguy Says:

      “I’m not here to be liked, I’m here to help get things done”.

      LOL What things “here” on Crock have you “helped to get done”?

      “And of course I have a sense of humor. I need one to deal with the likes of you”.

      LOL again, E-Pot is most assuredly not aware of it, but he has just shown us with this comment that his sense of humor is in fact rather limited.

      And, just like my algebra teacher that “factored for fun”, E-Pot has us rolling in the aisles over the “fun” of “pondering a restructuring of the US energy infrastructure to make it carbon-negative”. Unless of course, he’s making a joke there and DOES have a sense of humor (and, if so, how very droll it is).


      • A good word for a denier award might take a hint from potholers crocoduck. What’s the most outrageous and ridiculous GW denier meme?


      • E-Pot has us rolling in the aisles over the “fun” of “pondering a restructuring of the US energy infrastructure to make it carbon-negative”.

        So let me get this straight.  You expect the problem of anthropogenic climate change to be fixed… but you don’t expect anyone to get any pleasure out of finding the particular combinations of technologies and economic systems that will actually get it done.  You expect everyone and everything involved to be cold, plodding and joyless.

        Richard Feynman and Stephen Hawking apparently had great fun trying to come up with new insights into physics.  I suppose you begrudge that to them too.

        Unless of course, he’s making a joke there and DOES have a sense of humor (and, if so, how very droll it is).

        Even in dealing with one of humanity’s greatest crises, there is discovery, wonder, fun and delight.  It’s obvious that you are unable to share in any of these things.  There’s a reason you don’t get the joke:  it’s on you.

        • dumboldguy Says:

          E-Pot is another one whose need to make it “all about him” blinds him to to very simple truths. I was poking fun at his “sense of humor” (which he has shown us yet again with this comment to be almost non-existent).

          His response is to launch into a rant about “deriving pleasure” from “pondering”, and he even invokes Feynman and Hawking and physics while conflating pleasure-satisfaction-gratification with fun-humor. The usual overreach and overstatement we have come to expect.

          Actually, I think that all of us who are involved in helping the world examine and deal with AGW feel good about it. I certainly do, and the point I was trying to make was that YOU, E-Pot, all too often appear to be “cold, plodding and joyless”.

          I am the one who doesn’t get the joke? LOL You need to lighten up, E-Pot, and look around. You are quite UN-self-aware and clueless when it comes to the concept of “sense of humor”.


          • E-Pot is another one whose need to make it “all about him”

            Do I need to remind you that you asked me what I do for fun?  Your memory is as short as your self-described intellect is deficient.

            YOU, E-Pot, all too often appear to be “cold, plodding and joyless”.

            Prying at the obstinate boulder of your dogmatic ignorance, trying to get you to roll in a direction that actually helps, might look like that to you because it’s the only part you see well enough to grasp.  On the contrary, catching your contradictions and laying them out for the public to see is also fun.  The whole reason the “green” movement has made no headway against worldwide carbon emissions is because of contradictions like yours.  Documentarian Robert Stone has caught onto some of those contradictions, and so have many more.  Right now there’s a sense that lots of boulders are coming loose.  And just because I’m here needling you a bit over your ill-considered dogma doesn’t mean I’m not smiling when I do it.

          • dumboldguy Says:

            If E-Pot were a piano, only two keys would work, and they’d be side by side. Such is the “two-note” song he sings here in his blissfully unaware state. One of those notes is the attack upon the messenger that is the fallback position of those with no real counterarguments to present.

            “….your memory is as short as your self-described intellect is deficient”.
            “….the obstinate boulder of your dogmatic ignorance….”
            “….the only part you see well enough to grasp”.
            “….needling you over your ill-considered dogma…”

            The other even more sour note is the ongoing narcissism and “it’s all about E-Pot” that we see yet again as he crows about “catching my contradictions and laying them out for the public to see” and how that’s such “fun” for him. Like thinking one is funny because people are laughing as he repeatedly bangs his head against a wall.

            LOL Thank you for once again proving my point, E-Pot. No one besides me bothers trying to help you because they too don’t like to deal with “obstinate boulders”. but you should notice that your comments on this thread and others receive far, far more backlash and negative feedback than mine and nearly all others do. Will you ever understand why?


  9. […] More Predictable Than the Weather: “It’s Cold in winter – there is no Global Warmi… […]


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