Meanwhile, in Siberia

July 27, 2021

Unreal. I guess the permafrost will need a new name…@billmckibben https://t.co/zfBXBP27vS
— NaomiOreskes (@NaomiOreskes) July 27, 2021

Posted by greenman3610
Filed in Crock of the Week

24 Comments »

24 Responses to “Meanwhile, in Siberia”

rhymeswithgoalie Says:

July 27, 2021 at 10:33 pm
Using
https://climatereanalyzer.org/reanalysis/monthly_maps/

Reply
John Swallow Says:

July 28, 2021 at 5:49 am
Yes, we know that if it a series of cold events, that is only weather and we also know that, according to the alarmist, if it is a hot event in the summer, such as in Paris a couple of years ago, or a few hot days in the West today, that is climate change.

From this report, it appears that the permafrost was doing no melting this past winter in Siberia.
Yakutia sees longest cold spell in 14 years as Siberia quivers through abnormally harsh temperatures
January 19, 2021
The Siberian region of Yakutia has shivered through its longest cold spell in 14 years, with temperatures plunging below -40 °C (-40 °F) during the middle of December 2020. The area is currently in the grip of an abnormally long period of harsh cold that is considered unusual, even for Siberia’s standards.
https://watchers.news/2021/01/19/yakutia-sees-longest-cold-spell-in-14-years-as-siberia-quivers-through-abnormally-harsh-temperatures/

TEMPERATURES PLUNGE TO -73F IN SIBERIA DURING LONGEST AND HARSHEST COLD SPELL ON RECORD
JANUARY 19, 2021 CAP ALLON0 COMMENT
And as if things aren’t interesting enough already, by early Feb there is the potential for multiple Arctic air masses to engulf the entire Northern Hemisphere simultaneously.
https://electroverse.net/?s=Siberia

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- neilrieck Says:
  
  July 28, 2021 at 7:13 am
  So you are saying that everyone should ignore very high temps in Siberia now, in the middle summer, because it was very cold there in the middle of winter?
  
  Reply
  - dumboldguy Says:
    
    July 28, 2021 at 10:09 am
    That’s exactly what John Moron is saying as he ignores the topic of the post—-wildfires and their impact.
    
    Reply
- rhymeswithgoalie Says:
  
  July 28, 2021 at 12:33 pm
  40 years ago, we would have expected to have a ratio of
  1 high-temp record for every low-temp record
  
  In our warming world, we now have a ratio of
  10 high-temp record for every low-temp record
  
  Reply
  - dumboldguy Says:
    
    July 28, 2021 at 1:24 pm
    Please don’t confuse John Sucks with the FACTS of the big picture—-he can’t deal with that since he is a biased cherry-picker through and through.
    
    Reply
  - John Swallow Says:
    
    July 28, 2021 at 9:11 pm
    I wonder how this report comports with the climate model drawing about the “Probability of Occurrence” that ‘no name’ rhymeswithgoalie is so proud of about the subject of the thread, Siberia? rhymeswithgoalie is free to explain to a person who has taken the train from Moscow to Ulan-Ude and then on the Ulan Bator, Mongolia how the permafrost was melting on Monday, August 10, 2020.
    COLD-RECORDS FALL ACROSS FAR-EASTERN RUSSIA
    AUGUST 11, 2020
    Record COLD has gripped far-eastern Russia since the beginning of August.
    The early hours of Monday, August 10, 2020 saw the mercury in Markovo, Chutotka tumble to a frigid -1.1C (30.2F). This reading set a new record low for the day, pipping the previous record of -0.9C (30.4F) from 1945.
    Note, the year 1945 lands within the depths of the solar minimum of cycle 17:
    Furthermore, and preceding Monday’s record low in Markovo, the remote Russian town of Kurilsk, Sakhalin Oblast set a new all-time minimum temperature for the day on Sunday, August 9. According to hmn.ru, the thermometer in Kurilsk dropped to 5.9C (42.6F) which comfortably ousted the old record of 6.6C (43.9F) set back in 1954.
    And again, after checking with the historical sunspot data (a great barometer for solar activity), we find the year 1954 also falls within a solar minimum, this time of cycle 18:
    Adding to Markovo’s and Kurilsk’s, cold records were also set across the Khabarovsk Territory. On Aug 9, a chilly 7.9C (46.2F) was logged in Sovetskaya Gavan–the coldest August temperature taken here since records began 80 years ago.
    And staying in Khabarovsk, it’s been a historically cold summer across the territory. In June, only 2 days saw a temperature reading above average, and by the end of the month, June came out at a whopping 3C below normal.
    That Khabarovsk cold has persisted into August, too. Since the start of the month, the mercury has held some 5-6C below the norm across the region.
    And finally, on Aug 9, Khabarovsk’s Shantar Islands suffered a minimum of -0.9C (30.4F)–a new daily record. The last time it got anywhere near this cold was 30 years ago, back in 1990–but even then, the mercury didn’t drop below zero, resting at comparatively mild at 0.6C (33.1F), reports hmn.ru. https://electroverse.net/cold-records-fall-across-far-eastern-russia/
    
    Reply
  - John Swallow Says:
    
    July 28, 2021 at 9:26 pm
    I wonder how this report comports with the climate model drawing about the “Probability of Occurrence” that rhymeswithgoalie is so proud of?
    Summer snowstorm kills nearly 500 livestock animals, strands 400 tourists in Xinjiang, China
    July 3, 2020
    
    An unexpected summer snowstorm hit Xinjiang, China, on June 29, 2020, resulting in traffic disruption, more than 400 tourists stranded, and deaths of nearly 500 livestock.
    Herdsmen in Tekes County in the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region have suffered heavy losses after the blizzard caused 494 livestock animals to freeze to death, most of which were sheep.
    According to CCTV News Agency, the losses have reached nearly 141 300 dollars or 1 million yuan.
    
    https://watchers.news/2020/07/03/summer-snowstorm-kills-nearly-500-livestock-animals-strands-400-tourists-in-xinjiang-china/
    
    Reply
- rhymeswithgoalie Says:
  
  July 28, 2021 at 1:50 pm
  The whole reason we called it “permafrost” was that it stayed frozen all year round.
  
  A lot of buildings and roads have been built on permafrost. It is only in recent decades that the permafrost has begun to thaw all over the Arctic.
  
  Reply
  - John Swallow Says:
    
    July 28, 2021 at 10:13 pm
    rhymeswithgoalie Says: “The whole reason we called it “permafrost” was that it stayed frozen all year round.
    A lot of buildings and roads have been built on permafrost.” Then rhymeswithgoalie lies and writes this nonsense. It is only in recent decades that the permafrost has begun to thaw all over the Arctic. Where is your proof, rhymeswithgoalie?
    I lived in the arctic for 14 years and know something about permafrost and what effects it and there have always been naturally occurring occasions where it is disturbed and melts.
    Arctic treeline advance not as fast as previously believed
    Carey Restino | The Arctic Sounder | Updated: September 27, 2016
    http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/arctic-treeline-advance-not-fast-previously-believed
    
    Ancient Permafrost and a Future, Warmer Arctic Science 19 Sep 2008:
    Abstract
    Climate models predict extensive and severe degradation of permafrost in response to global warming, with a potential for release of large volumes of stored carbon. However, the accuracy of these models is difficult to evaluate because little is known of the history of permafrost and its response to past warm intervals of climate. We report the presence of relict ground ice in subarctic Canada that is greater than 700,000 years old, with the implication that ground ice in this area has survived past interglaciations that were warmer and of longer duration than the present interglaciation.
    https://science.sciencemag.org/content/321/5896/1648.abstract
    
    Reply
    - rhymeswithgoalie Says:
      
      July 28, 2021 at 10:50 pm
      The findings, based on an extensive analysis of growth rings and wood density going back almost 1,000 years in trees at the tundra edge along Alaska’s Firth River are in dramatic contrast to the ailing Interior forests, where warmer temperatures and drought have cut growth rates, increased forest fires and triggered insect outbreaks.
      
      You posted as evidence a news story, and you didn’t even read the whole news article, and you didn’t even go near what the scientific research was about.
      
      One good thing about this: I got to read an interesting study on how climate change affects the tree-line/tundra boundary. Once again, you missed the point of the study. They weren’t sure how AGW would affect it, so somebody researched what was actually happening to the tree line from 1950-2000 along the tundra. One interesting thing they discovered was that two different aspects of dendrochronology of this white spruce growth have diverged:
      
      TRW = Tree-Ring Width
      MXD = Maximum Latewood Density
      
      This is an important discovery for dendrochronology and climate proxies, but you don’t have the capacity to understand it.
      
      YOU SEE TWO CIVIL WAR ENTHUSIASTS ARGUING THE DETAILS OF THE BATTLE OF SHILOH AND USE THAT AS PROOF THAT THE CIVIL WAR NEVER HAPPENED.
      
      I also checked out your sciencemag.org “evidence”:
      There is no doubt about the warming. There was uncertainty in 2008 about how soon we’d see the effects of melting on permafrost. In the past twelve years they learned that it was much worse (faster) than they expected.
      
      Reply
      - John Swallow Says:
        
        July 29, 2021 at 12:40 am
        rhymeswithgoalie Says: “Once again, you missed the point of the study.” Here is another study for you to not understand. This is a study that was done in Russia near where Michael Mann got his tree that he used to construct the hockey stick graph. It will be interesting to see if rhymeswithgoalie will be able understand what this scientific study is telling him.
        “However, conifers have not yet recolonized many areas where trees were present during the Medieval Warm period (ca AD 800–1300) or the Holocene Thermal Maximum (HTM; ca 10 000–3000 years ago). Reconstruction of tree distributions during the HTM suggests that the future position of the treeline due to global warming may approximate its former Holocene maximum position”
        “Climate change and the northern Russian tree line zone
        ABSTRACT
        The Russian treeline is a dynamic ecotone typified by steep gradients in summer temperature and regionally variable gradients in albedo and heat flux. The location of the treeline is largely controlled by summer temperatures and growing season length. Temperatures have responded strongly to twentieth-century global warming and will display a magnified response to future warming. Dendroecological studies indicate enhanced conifer recruitment during the twentieth century. However, conifers have not yet recolonized many areas where trees were present during the Medieval Warm period (ca AD 800–1300) or the Holocene Thermal Maximum (HTM; ca 10 000–3000 years ago). Reconstruction of tree distributions during the HTM suggests that the future position of the treeline due to global warming may approximate its former Holocene maximum position. An increased dominance of evergreen tree species in the northern Siberian forests may be an important difference between past and future conditions. Based on the slow rates of treeline expansion observed during the twentieth century, the presence of steep climatic gradients associated with the current Arctic coastline and the prevalence of organic soils, it is possible that rates of treeline expansion will be regionally variable and transient forest communities with species abundances different from today’s may develop.”
        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2606780/
- rhymeswithgoalie Says:
  
  July 28, 2021 at 2:06 pm
  From this report, it appears that the permafrost was doing no melting this past winter in Siberia.
  
  No melting in winter. Golly. No melting. In winter.
  
  You really are an idiot, aren’t you. And you seem to have no idea how your responses are irrelevant to the points being made. You probably don’t even care. You give yourself points for posting a large volume of content-free responses.
  
  Your only response to facts and logic are programmed insults like “brainwashed” and “alarmist”. That, or completely irrelevant factoids about past weather events that were happening at a normal freqency.
  
  Why won’t you watch any of the many videos demonstrating the Greenhouse Effect? Have you been “brainwashed” not to watch them?
  
  Reply
  - John Swallow Says:
    
    July 28, 2021 at 10:28 pm
    rhymeswithgoalie says many things in ‘its’ comment above; but nothing about the actual subject of the thread. I do hope that ‘its’ ad hominem attack directed at me makes them feel better and more able to dig up more lies about permafrost.
    I look for and discover the truth about why and how it is that permafrost melts, it must be that the ground cover on it is disturbed.
    •
    • Wed 24 Nov 1954
    • Page 2
    • CANADA WILL SHIFT ARCTIC DWELLERS
    CANADA WILL SHIFT
    ARCTIC DWELLERS
    OTTAWA. Tuesday.—Canada’s largest Arctic
    community, threatened with sinking through melting
    permafrost terrain at Aklavik, 70 miles south of the
    Arctic Ocean. will be moved to a new location.
    The community, situated
    on a delta on the west bank
    of the Mackenzie River, will
    be moved to a site on the
    east channel of the Macken
    zie, 30 miles from Aklavik.
    The Northern Affairs Depart
    ment said yesterday that the
    move would take three or four
    years to complete.
    The new community will be
    as modern as climatic condi-
    tions permit.
    It will be provided with an
    adequate sanitation system,
    roads and an airstrip.
    On the present site the heat
    of summer and the ground
    warmth created by buildings
    turns the permafrost into a
    quagmire.
    The population of Aklavik
    now fluctuates between 600 in
    winter and 1,500 in summer.
    Most of the inhabitants are
    Eskimo or Indian.
    
    https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/52966277
    
    Reply
    - rhymeswithgoalie Says:
      
      July 28, 2021 at 11:07 pm
      I look for and discover the truth about why and how it is that permafrost melts, it must be that the ground cover on it is disturbed.
      
      They’re measuring permafrost melt across large portions of the Arctic wilderness and your “evidence” is a newspaper article from 1954 about one town in the MacKenzie River floodplain that had to be moved, purportedly because their buildings overheated the permafrost.
      
      “Evidence” fail.
      Logic fail.
      
      This has nothing to do with the cold roads and old buildings that have sat on the permafrost for decades and are melting from the local higher temperatures.
      
      So, are you from Alaska? Do you get any of that sweet, sweet oil money?
      
      Reply
      - John Swallow Says:
        
        July 29, 2021 at 1:23 am
        rhymeswithgoalie Says: “This has nothing to do with the cold roads and old buildings that have sat on the permafrost for decades and are melting from the local higher temperatures.” I certainly hope that rhymeswithgoalie can understand that Alaska’s record high temperature came before its record low temperature.
        Alaska Maximum Temperature 100°F June 27, 1915 Fort Yukon 26413 E
        Alaska Minimum Temperature -80°F Jan 23, 1971 Prospect Creek Camp 507778 E
        https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/extremes/scec/records
        
        I have read what the link directs me to; “The farm under the sand”, and it appears that you have not read what University of Alberta Anthropologist Dr. Charles Schweger discovered when he went into the field to do research to get to the truth. That is a different strategy than the alarmist use by just sitting on their dead behinds and making comments about things that they know-nothing about. If you have a problem with what Dr. Schweger has discovered, then by all means take it up with him. I’m sure that he will be so interested in hearing the ideas of some who has more than likely never been above the Arctic Circle.
        
        A specialist in Arctic paleo-ecology and geo-archeology, Schweger joined the international archeological team that would spend the next seven years sifting through sand at GUS.
        […]
        “The Norse arrived in Greenland 1,000 years ago and became very well established,” says Schweger, describing the Viking farms and settlements that crowded the southeast and southwest coasts of Greenland for almost 400 years.
        “The Greenland settlements were the most distant of all European medieval sites in the world,” said Schweger. “Then the Norse disappear, and the question has always been: what happened?”
        […]
        Schweger recalls vividly the day the team uncovered GUS. Smells frozen in permafrost for 500 years exploded into the air. “It stunk to high heavens,” says Schweger. “There was no question about this being a farm.” The Viking ships that had brought Icelandic adventurers to Greenland may have been mini versions of Noah’s Ark with sheep, goats, horses and Vikings sharing the crowded space. The Greenland Vikings raised sheep and fabricated woolen garments. The centre of the farm was a typical Viking longhouse, the communal building where Vikings gathered around the fire. The settlement flourished. In the North Atlantic, walrus, seal and whale were abundant and the Greenlanders made rope from walrus hide and controlled the European walrus tusk market.
        […]
        “The ring seal is only one species of seal. The Norse hunted everything else – walrus, whales, harbour seals,” says Schweger, moving quickly to part two of his McGovern challenge. The argument that the Vikings were poor farmers doesn’t make sense upon close examination of the GUS organic material. “There is no evidence that they were destroying their fields. Quite the opposite. They were improving upon them.”
        It is not surprising that the Greenland Vikings chose to farm at the mouth of a fjord. The Vikings who settled Iceland and later moved to Greenland were originally from Norway, where farming technology grew up around fjords. The centre of a fjord farm is a meadow where animals graze during winter months.
        […]
        Cross-sections of the GUS soil show the Vikings began their settlement by burning off Birch brush to form a meadow. Over the next 300 to 400 years, the meadow soil steadily improved its nutritional qualities, showing that the Greenland Vikings weren’t poor farmers, as McGovern and others have suggested. “At GUS, the amount of organic matter and the quality of soil increased and sustained farming for 400 years,” says Schweger. “If they were poor farmers, then virtually all the farming in North America is poor farming.”
        https://sites.ualberta.ca/~publicas/folio/38/16/03.html
  - J4Zonian Says:
    
    August 12, 2021 at 8:23 am
    I’ve come to the conclusion that in addition to his or her other problems, Swallows is autistic. It certainly explains the many bizarrely off-topic, non-sequitur responses s/he makes, the inability to take in reality, and the odd presentation we see over and over. While we’ve seen that many people on the autism spectrum can live extraordinary lives and make significant contributions to the world, Swallows has trouble accepting reality and dealing with others, can’t tell the difference between hate and anger or between one person who knows Swallows is wrong and millions—this “alarmist” s/he keeps obsessing about, for example.
    
    Plus, although I haven’t tracked it, the number of places relevant to discussions here that Swallows has supposedly lived and the number of relevant things s/he’s supposedly done are extremely unlikely, so in addition to lying to us or him or herself about everything else, including claims about other people, we can be pretty sure s/he’s lying to someone about his or her own experience.
    
    Reply
- grindupbaker Says:
  
  July 28, 2021 at 3:57 pm
  “a series of cold events, that is only weather” I have a vague memory of Greenman going on and on and on and on about some unusual sustained cold snap for North America, at least twice is my memories, and saying about how the cold event was caused by climate change and not just random weather and going on and on and on and on with some climate scientist going on about Wonky Jet Streams and making me nap and generally going on and on about those series of cold events not being only weather. But what the heck I’m geriatric so likely you’re right and I’m having some more False Memory Syndromes.
  
  Reply
  - John Swallow Says:
    
    July 29, 2021 at 1:36 am
    grindupbaker Says: “I have a vague memory of Greenman going on and on and on and on about some unusual sustained cold snap for North America….” Why don’t you supply the links to these Greenman videos so that I can enjoy them also?
    
    I’m not sure what grindupbaker is out to prove; but, if grindupbaker can provide me with the link to the video that Greenman presented about this cold record breaking occurrence below, I’d appreciate it.
    “At least 2 400 cold temperature records broken or tied in the U.S. from February 12 to 16, 2021
    February 18, 2021
    At least 2 400 preliminary daily cold temperature records, including cold maximums and minimums, were broken or tied at longer-term sites (75+ years of data) in the United States from February 12 to 16, 2021. The cold snap peaked from February 14 to 16. Another winter storm will affect a large area from Friday, February 19 — from the Lower Mississippi Valley into the Mid-Atlantic and Northeast.
    Over just the past week, much of the Lower 48 has been punished with record-breaking cold and unusually heavy snow and ice, NWS Weather Prediction Center said.
    From the Pacific Northwest across the Rockies and into the Southern Plains and Midwest, the snowfall has been measured in feet. Ice and snow continue to plague Texas and the Northeast.
    https://watchers.news/2021/02/18/2400-cold-temperature-records-broken-or-tied-us-february-2021/
    
    Reply
Keith McClary Says:

July 28, 2021 at 1:16 pm
Those fires are advancing INTO the wind!

Reply
- rhymeswithgoalie Says:
  
  July 28, 2021 at 1:57 pm
  Aw, crap.
  Could there be some sort of backdraft condition such that wind blowing over the treetops pulled air underneath forward?
  
  “Paging Mr. Bernoulli, Mr. Daniel Bernoulli. Please pick up the white courtesy phone.”
  
  Reply
  - grindupbaker Says:
    
    July 28, 2021 at 3:50 pm
    Tidbit: Few years back I did a quick Coriolis Effect look. I’m not revisiting now but I bet you (small coffee & doughnut) that if air/smoke at that sort of latitude tried to blow direct north south at high speed it would make a vicious right turn. Weird little thing about Coriolis Effect is that the harder you try to race north south the less successful you are because the formula form is:
    Acceleration [east west] = f (velocity [north south}, latitude)
    and is not
    Velocity [east west] = f (velocity [north south}, latitude)
    So softly softly catchee monkey gets you north south, which I expect is what Wonky North Polar Jet Stream is.
    
    Reply
J4Zonian Says:

July 28, 2021 at 5:19 pm
Bifrost is the name of the rainbow bridge between Earth and Asgard at the end of Götterdämmerung, The Twilight of the Gods, the last of Wagner’s Ring Cycle. It’s the end of the world as everything goes up in flames, including the bridge, so it becomes, as fossil gas has become, a bridge to nowhere.

So, sorry, even though it’s the wrong pronunciation and meaning, the new name for permafrost has to be either Bifrost or semi-frost. Because what’s better than a bad bilingual (or semi-lingual) pun?

Reply
J4Zonian Says:

August 12, 2021 at 1:56 pm
Just happened to run across this site with lots of high temperature records—more than 10 pages of them. The trolls can still cherry pick but it’s “unequivocal” the world is warming and that humans greenhouse gases are the cause.

https://watchers.news/search/?q=record+heat+high+temperatures+

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