Fresh Market for Tesla: HVAC

March 31, 2020

34 Responses to “Fresh Market for Tesla: HVAC”

  1. dumboldguy Says:

    Lord love a duck! How in the world is Musk going to find the time to go into HVAC while he takes us to the moon, digs tunnels everywhere, and produces oversized Hot Wheels toys for grown-ups like the pickup truck?

    Ego conquers all, I guess. And I couldn’t find as much horseshit as is contained in this video if I spent days touring the stable of the rich folks in Virginia horse country.
    HEPA filters and A/C units are nothing new, and lots of others are in the business. Why can’t Musk stop smoking dope and doing these little ego trips on TV? Just STFU and build cars and rockets, two things he does reasonably well.

    (Cue GB, leader of the Northeast Region USA Musk Cult).

    • dumboldguy Says:

      Ooooops—I misspoke. It’s our president-by-accident that wants to go to the moon. It’s MARS that Musk hallucinates about.

    • jimbills Says:

      Musk, not at his best:

      Elon Musk Has Played An Extremely Dangerous Game
      https://jalopnik.com/elon-musk-has-played-an-extremely-dangerous-game-1842416407

      • Gingerbaker Says:

        Jalopnik has always tilted quite strongly anti Tesla.

      • dumboldguy Says:

        Actually, although CPAP and BPAP machines cannot substitute for full fledged ventilators, they may be of some help when things get bad. I have sleep apnea and have been using a CPAP machine for 10 years now—-has helped considerably with the sleep apnea.

        It DOES push air into one’s lungs under pressure—-I have a full face mask and breath through my nose—-if I open my mouth, the pressure is enough to puff my cheeks out (like a dog sticking his head out a car widow—-Woof!)

        I got to thinking about whether it would be a help or hindrance if I got covid and did some research. If there aren’t enough ventilators, the CPAP might be a stopgap until ventilators are available. Or they may help keep a moderate case from becoming more severe. Or they could be given to patients to take home and use if they’re not sick enough to hospitalize. Or be given out by EMT’s to those they visit at home who have no hospital openings to go to. They are comparatively cheap and a lot more available—-Musk isn’t hurting anybody with his move.

        I have also been giving thought to the mask situation. I have a number of balaclavas that I wear when biking in cold weather or when shoveling snow. From the research I’ve done, they say layers of cotton t-shirt material make a workable mask. I’m thinking of cutting up some t-shirts into mask sized pieces and stuffing as many layers as I can into a balaclava and still draw air through—-should be able to get half a dozen layers or more in there and the stretchy balaclave will hold it tight over mouth and nose better than ear strings. Just throw it all in the wash and “reassemble” for the next use.

        • jimbills Says:

          Yeah – there is a Financial Times article linked in there, and it mentions that the machines could be used for lesser cases. Musk gave them for free, and they won’t hurt, assuming the staff uses them properly.

          It’s something.

          But he could have actually started building ventilators himself, like GM and Dyson have, instead of buying equipment on the open market like everyone is trying to do. And this comes after a month of repeatedly downplaying the seriousness of the virus by tweet to his 30 million followers.

          The guy just irks me. In time, he will be credited for almost single-handedly kick starting EVs, and that’s more than something. But he has this compulsive need to be right about every single thing. He’s another narcissist like Trump (although Trump is full NPD). The trait helps him be a mover and shaker, but it also scatters his efforts all over the place.

          The ‘pedo guy’ thing, now this. He’s human, I get it, but some people treat him like he’s infallible, and that can be really problematic when his influence leads others in less than helpful ways.

  2. Canman Says:

    The “H” in HVAC is for heating. I just ran across a couple of very sobering paragraphs in this piece (which in itself is very sobering):

    At the same time, Britain’s adoption of net zero means that it has to decarbonize home heating. At present, this is mostly done cheaply and efficiently with natural gas. The average energy used per day in our personal mobility and logistics is relatively constant through the year, with small excursions downward on weekends and variations over seasons. This is in contrast to the future demand for electric heat to replace gas heating: here, there exists a factor of between 8 and 10 between the use of gas in winter and summer. The current gas grid copes with that by a faster flow of gas. This feature would also be required for a future grid capable of handling all our heat demands.

    Where will all this extra electricity – averaging more than the grid of today – come from? Will the current transmission system be able to cope? If both heating and mobility are to be provided without fossil fuels, the UK will need to more than treble the energy in the current electricity grid. Renewable energy cannot make up the difference. We simply do not have the area, onshore and offshore, for sufficient wind and solar farms. One current problem of nuclear energy—the cost of decommissioning power plants at the end of their operational life—will visit solar and wind farms with a vengeance. Renewable power yields more kilograms of hazardous waste per kW power generation than does nuclear power.

    https://www.realclearenergy.org/articles/2020/03/18/electric_motors_versus_internal_combustion_engines_486956.html

    One of the big boons to affordable heating has been low CO2 fracked, natural gas — a point that is being noticed by civil rights leaders:

    https://www.axios.com/civil-rights-leaders-natural-gas-d87e27de-b206-47bd-ac4e-d46e3da4f3b6.html

    • Greg Wellman Says:

      Better insulation

    • rhymeswithgoalie Says:

      One of the big boons to affordable heating has been low CO2 fracked, natural gas…

      I, for one, believer that frackers grossly underreport how much CH4 leaks from fracking sites.

      Also, as a general rule, I don’t value the opinions of “civil rights leaders” when it comes to technical topics.

    • Gingerbaker Says:

      realclearenergy is a right-wing pro-oil enterprise. Advise extreme skepticism.

      The very idea that the UK does not have enough area to generate the RE it needs is absurd.

      • Gingerbaker Says:

        And have we not been talking about how much electricity our future will need for years?

        Triple is not the right answer, because electric motors and heat pumps are way more efficient than fossil fuel calories.

        More due diligence, OK?

        • dumboldguy Says:

          “Triple is not the right answer, because electric motors and heat pumps are way more efficient than fossil fuel calories”.

          WHAT?? Omnologos could not have said it less clearly. How about some due diligence in studying our Science for Dummies books before we babble on?

          • Gingerbaker Says:

            Oh, stop it.

            That article, like most RE or EV FUD, is star-struck by the energy density of fossil fuels. (As if it matters.)

            So they calculate the future energy needs of society based upon the CALORIES of fossil fuels we need to replace. But that overestimates our future energy needs, because RE is more efficient.

            And I remember this, because I made the same mistake. I used to say we would need 3 times more electricity for future. But, if I understand it correctly, we do not need 3X, we will need 2X.

            Now, look into my eyes…. deep, deep into my eyes….. you are getting sleepy…. so very very sleepy……. now repeat after me….

            ” “To see a World in a Grain of Sand And a Heaven in a Wild Flower, Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand And Eternity in an hour“.”

            “To see a World in a Grain of Sand And a Heaven in a Wild Flower, Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand And Eternity in an hour“.

            “To see a World in a Grain of Sand And a Heaven in a Wild Flower, Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand And Eternity in an hour“.

      • Canman Says:

        “realclearenergy is a right-wing pro-oil enterprise. Advise extreme skepticism.”

        Skepticism is a good thing and right wing sites are going to have biases and blind spots, but I’ll save my extreme skepticism for the left wing energy sites. They’re almost exclusively uncritical, pro wind/solar/battery, propaganda!

        IMO, the most interesting writer on energy is physicist, Mark Mills of the Manhattan Institute:

        https://www.manhattan-institute.org/expert/mark-p-mills

        He has a lot of surprising stuff that is very well argued.

        • J4Zonian Says:

          The link goes general, so it’s hard to say what so impressed Can in his or her stoned state, but I doubt if Mills is as surprising as Canman thinks. Maybe Can’s just not smart enough to keep up with actual reality so s/he can’t tell the difference between it and right wing tribal nonsense. Fortunately many people still can.

          By well-argued I think Can means it’s stupid, fractally wrong and psychopathic enough for him or her to fall for its nonsense and lies, while offering all the lunatic conspiracy theories conceivable, and despising the ecologically aware.

          From desmogblog, a site that’s trustworthy enough to be mistaken for a lefty site but actually is just about reporting the facts:

          “The Manhattan Institute for Policy Research, originally known as the International Center for Economic Policy Studies, was founded in 1978 by Antony Fisher and William [CIA] Casey and in recent years has promoted climate science contrarianism [aka denying delayalism] while defending policies supporting the development of fossil fuels.”

          IOW, it’s a group that takes positions opposed to ecological science and rational energy policy based purely on the psychological issues that compel people to be obsessed with domination and indulge their bigmanlymachine bias. It’s funded by a Who’s Who of proto-fascist bag men who spend billions on professional liars: Koch, Exxon, Mercer, Scaife, Donors Trust, PhRMA, American Natural Gas Alliance, Cato Inst. and dozens more.

          I don’t know of a single site that’s uncritically pro wind/solar/battery. Apparently Can either hasn’t read many sites outside the ARF kingdom, or is lying. Or both. David Roberts is excellent, though unrealistically soft on gas and nukes; Michael Barnard is good on Cleantechnica; Dan Gearino on Inside Climate News. And I know more and am more honest about climate, energy, politics, and the psychology that drives all our problems than any climate-denying delayalist, ARF, spent fuel rod, or Randian objectivist troll I’ve talked to.

          They’re people who know enough about both climate and energy to know what’s needed: a massive emergency Green New Deal to shut down fossil fuels (if plagues and droughts don’t do it) and replace them as fast as humanly possible with efficiency, wiser lives, and clean safe renewable energy. We need to transform agriculture and industry through political revolution.

          • Canman Says:

            Show me an example of CleanTechnia being critical of wind, solar or batteries.

            … And DeSmogBlog? I once heard a Heartland podcaster call it, “the toilet of the internet”. You might find Heartland extreme, so hear’s a lukewarmer view:

            What I’ve found on the other side of the fence is the opposite of what I am hoping for. DeSmogBlog maintains a database of ‘global warming deniers.’ It’s a hit list and a black list of political opponents to DeSmogBlog’s political position. It lists many scientists as climate deniers, so the overall logic of it escapes me. (“DeSmog does at least get its funding from only the highest moral authority, right? Well, wrong again. DeSmog was founded with $300,000 from its chief benefactor John Lefebvre. Lefebvre is a convicted Internet fraudster currently out on bail awaiting conviction after pleading guilty in the NETeller multi-million dollar online pay system scam”. – See more at: http://www.energytribune.com/6994/desmog-debunked#sthash.f5yk7lrw.dpuf)

            https://thelukewarmersway.wordpress.com/2015/03/01/homilies-and-ad-hominems/

          • dumboldguy Says:

            Canman is beyond stoned. Thinking that the quote from The Lukewarmer’s Way has any validity at all indicates either that he is hopelessly lost and ignorant or is a closet denier himself. Desmog is THE definitive source on all things in the world of climate deniers. They make an insignificant error now and then, but they are 99.999% right on the money. I have checked their info in other places—-it is almost always more than you can find elsewhere and in agreement

          • Canman Says:

            I’m beginning to wonder if places like DeSmogBlog are really about the climate and environment. I’m starting to think they might be more about feeling self-righteous and being part of a pitchfork wielding mob!

            Flush … Swirl

          • dumboldguy Says:

            Another comment from the Can that shows his true colors. Cognitive dissonance crossed with Dunning-Kruger? My sympathies!

          • J4Zonian Says:

            “I once heard a Heartland podcaster…”

            Seriously?

            I’m curious about why you’re denying reality and posting such nonsense over and over, but I know that even in the unlikely event you have any idea what your real motives are, there’s virtually no chance you’ll be honest. That’s the difference. Heartland is full of psychotic, psychopathic liars. It’s funded by rich psychotic, psychopathic liars. The “scientists” who are climate denying delayalists are mostly not scientists. The ones who are or were aren’t in climate science, or have been left behind by data and knowledge they’ve refused to accept, or they have radical right wing beliefs economically and politically, (Roy Spencer) or are sellouts to fossil fuel corporations (Willie Soon)… The big difference: they all are either emotionally disturbed or liars, usually both, just like you.

            If you really believe those things about desmogblog there’s no point in discussing anything with you except your psychotherapy, which you need to start asap. If you don’t believe them but are stating them dishonestly, there’s no point in discussing anything with you except your psychotherapy, which you need to start asap.

          • Canman Says:

            J4Zonian, that’s actually a pretty impressive list — lots of PhDs, a couple of Apollo astronauts (Stephan Lewandowsky conflates us climate skeptic blog readers with moon landing deniers). They’re not all perfect. Sources of funding do not make someone wrong, but it’s not unreasonable to be wary of influence.

            One thing that I can guarantee you, is that every single one of them has been paid by the biggest, most influential, fossil fuel interest of all — people who use fossil fuels and vote in elections.

          • dumboldguy Says:

            Canman just keeps proving himself incapable of listening-learning-thinking, doesn’t he?

            A “pretty impressive list”? Yep, impressive like the defendant list for the Nuremberg Trials was “impressive” (and maybe someday we’ll have a similar trial for climate change deniers—-presided over by Chief Justice Greta Thunberg)

          • Canman Says:

            Dumboldguy, You’re not the first person to bring up a Climate Nuremberg:

            https://climatenuremberg.com/

    • Brent Jensen-Schmidt Says:

      General comments. Problems, real ones, to be addressed. Solutions will take time, unfortunate, get over it. The ‘too hard’ excuse makes it too easy to do nothing. Those poor people who need cheap energy also live on the same planet. Problem to be addressed along with a gazillion others.

  3. redskylite Says:

    It make sense for manufacturers to make athletic use of their resources and diversify as much as possible, especially when unforeseen challenges are abroad.

    I wish the manufacturing company I worked for in the past used their fine selection of modern metal working tools and wide range of technical expertise for widening their range of products.

    They might still be in business if they had.

    Go TESLA .

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++==

    12:35 GMT – ‘Dear Elon’: Ukraine takes up Tesla’s ventilator offer via Twitter
    Ukraine has taken to Twitter to ask Elon Musk to send it ventilators after the billionaire chief executive of Tesla Inc offered to ship them across the world during the coronavirus pandemic.

    Musk said this week he was ready to send the life-saving machines wherever his company delivers, free of charge.

    “Dear Elon, Ukraine is the second largest country in Europe with population nearly 40 mln citizens,” Ukraine’s embassy in Washington, DC wrote on Twitter late on Wednesday. “The pandemic situation in Ukraine is approaching its peak, April is going to be the hardest. People in hospitals need ventilators. We are ready to cooperate! Dyakuyemo! [Thank you!]”

    Elon Musk

    @elonmusk
    · Apr 1, 2020
    We have extra FDA-approved ventilators. Will ship to hospitals worldwide within Tesla delivery regions. Device & shipping cost are free. Only requirement is that the vents are needed immediately for patients, not stored in a warehouse. Please me or @Tesla know.

    UKR Embassy in USA

    @UKRintheUSA
    Dear Elon,
    Ukraine🇺🇦 is the second largest country in Europe with population nearly 40 mln citizens. The pandemic situation in Ukraine is approaching its peak, April is going to be the hardest. People in hospitals need ventilators. We are ready to cooperate! Dyakuyemo!

    795
    9:49 AM – Apr 2, 2020
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    383 people are talking about this


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