The Climate Files: How Big Fossil Made Doubt Their Product

January 20, 2019

They knew

Source docs at Climate Files.


34 Responses to “The Climate Files: How Big Fossil Made Doubt Their Product”

  1. ecoquant Says:

    President Frank Ikard of the American Petroleum Institute from a speech given in 1965:

  2. Keith McClary Says:

    Who were the five independent scientists?

    • dumboldguy Says:

      Tried to locate the names, but it appears that Exxon and the Kochs spread their money around over a lot more than five, and did it through a number of organizations and think tanks instead of directly

      DeSmogblog lists some 60+ different groups like the heritage foundation that got Exxon $$$$—–check out the scientists they supported and you’ll get an idea. Safe to say that Willie Soon and the Idso’s are among them.

  3. Terry Donte Says:

    The guy was talking about pollution which was pretty bad in places like LA before they started doing something about tailpipe emissions. That pollution has nothing to do with climate change or CO2. As has been pointed out the USA has reduced its pollution a whole lot while others like China and India are making it a lot worse.

    • ecoquant Says:

      Cumulative CO2 emissions by region:

      Cumulative emissions are all that matter, because of the longevity, in atmosphere, of Carbon Dioxide. Annual emissions don’t matter at all.

      It’s ALL owned by the United States and Europe.

      • dumboldguy Says:

        Ecoquacky does it again!

        “Cumulative emissions are all that matter, because of the longevity, in atmosphere, of Carbon Dioxide. Annual emissions don’t matter at all. It’s ALL owned by the United States and Europe”.

        Lord love a duck, but that’s one of the dumber things Quacky has said here. Yes, the US and Europe ARE to much to blame for the size of the cumulative emissions—-not surprising since that’s where the Industrial Revolution began and has been polluting longest—-but to say “annual emissions don’t matter at all” totally ignores the FACT that the rest of the world (whose population far outnumbers the West) is now producing an ever-increasing quantity of CO2 ANNUALLY , wants to have a living standard like that in the West, is going to NEED millions of air conditioners to survive the coming heat waves, and is still burning too much COAL (coal being the subject Quacky refuses to discuss).

        Perhaps it’s time to remind Quacky of the old saw that everyone is entitled to their OPINION, no matter how half-assed, but NOT to their own facts. It is a simple FACT that ALL emissions—-past, present, and future—-are of concern.

        • ecoquant Says:


          No doubt all emissions are of concern, but that the USA and Europe own most of the cumulative emissions, and cumulative emissions are what matter, this means, on a strictly ethical and moral basis, the economies of the USA and Europe should bear most of the responsibility for fixing the mess.

          Sure, anyone who owns a piece, including China and Russia, should also pay. But economic success presently enjoyed is due in part to using the atmosphere as a sewer. Compensation is in order.

          • dumboldguy Says:

            Quacky just can’t quit. Now he’s swinging over to some BS about “moral and ethical responsibility” and “compensation”? WTF is he talking about?

            How did we get to that from “cumulative emissions are all that matter”? (and why doesn’t he want to talk about coal—-the stake through the heart of humanity?)

            I will repeat—-yes, cumulative emissions MAY have already doomed us, but if we don’t deal strongly with the “annual emissions” yet to come from EVERY country in the world, there is virtually no hope.

    • dumboldguy Says:

      Tailpipe emission have nothing to do with climate change or CO2? Just because we’ve cut some of the crap that comes out of tailpipes doesn’t mean that the rest of it isn’t doing damage to the climate. And The Orange Hump’s plans to relax fuel economy standards means even more CO2 is coming. Get educated, Terry!

  4. Keith McClary Says:

    “A paper in Nature Climate Change this week argues that attempts to counter misinformation need to draw on the research that is illuminating the bad actors behind climate denialism, the money funding them, and how their coordinated campaigns are disrupting the political process.”

  5. redskylite Says:

    And yet we keep reading that judges believe that it is not their responsibility to rule on it, and they leave it to governments who won’t touch it. Tobacco messed up countless peoples lungs and health – climate change messed up the whole planet, with it’s ecosystems failing too.

    (Opinion – good first class opinion from a journalist) “The only people still in doubt are not the type to be persuaded by facts. If you present evidence, they’ll simply attack the credibility of the source and insult you for believing it.”

    • ecoquant Says:


      While I continue to have hope for cases like Juliana, et al v United States (*) and support them, I think it important to consider the possibility that mitigating and reversing climate change due to greenhouse gas emissions is too big and too hard a problem for constitutional democracy to address, considering it as a system. For one thing, this is a global problem, and there is no global constitutional democracy: The world is divided up into almost wholly managed jurisdictions. The only want something like this could be managed is if there were a handful of governments which dominated all world economies and political discourse and they, in consort, pushed a solution.

      This does not only regard the complete changeover from fossil fuels to zero emission systems, but the replacement of infrastructure and transport with zero Carbon alternatives, and, moreover, containing and offsetting emissions from pure agriculture. (Rice farming produces a lot as well as beef and other meat production, setting aside any emissions from planting, harvesting, transport, and production.) I’m not saying it would be a good thing, but planting the entire Saudi Arabian peninsula or the surface of New Mexico and Arizona with Jatropha curcas is an enormous undertaking and is riddled with problems of eminent domain, ecosystem and economic impacts, as well as how to harvest their oils. Designing, building, deploying, and maintaining a system of clear air capture devices for grabbing CO2 out of the air and then doing something with it is an enormous project, bigger than anything peoplekind has ever attempted, and even that would demand that emissions be first zeroed, or at least dropped to someplace below 2 GtC per annum, probably below 1 GtC per annum.

      The cost is bigger than anything we can imagine: Seizing and liquidating all fossil fuel company assets, even if their value were magically maintained through such a confiscation, wouldn’t even scratch the surface. Frankly, the entire Gross World Product for a single year, at present estimates of prices, isn’t enough either.

      It is a wicked problem, for sure. But I an optimistic something can be done. Optimism is fine, but failing to even begin the work to do it surely makes the project harder. We certainly aren’t going to wish or hope it away.

      (*) This is the wonderful campaign of legal precedents mounted by Our Children’s Trust and the Nature’s Trust doctrine. See Farber’s recent take. For background, see the extensive article by Mary Wood and Michael Blum.

  6. redskylite Says:

    So if judges leave the punishment of the petroleum business (who knew) to the government, what action do you think they will take ? . .

    “Near the end of 2018, the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) hired the leading promoter within academia of a massive and multi-faceted petrochemical complex proposed for West Virginia. A month later, the agency issued a report favoring the construction of such a complex.”

  7. indy222 Says:

    Continues to amaze me how utterly amoral such powerful people are. A sick civilization, that empowers such people and the lackys they install in government… while we all play along that we have political and business “leadership”. The Emporer’s New Clothes and they never go out of style. Ever. I’ve lived too many years to be still watching the same old s****.

    • dumboldguy Says:

      I’m tired of watching it too. Just finished a good book—-White Rage—-a good rundown of how the same old s*** has been going on for 350+ years.

  8. redskylite Says:

    It’s not lack of condemning evidence it is the universal and total lack of will to do anything about it,

    It was a typical November day in New York City. The year: 1959. Robert Dunlop, 50 years old and photographed later as clean-shaven, hair carefully parted, his earnest face donning horn-rimmed glasses, passed under the Ionian columns of Columbia University’s iconic Low Library. He was a guest of honor for a grand occasion: the centennial of the American oil industry.

    Ladies and gentlemen, I am to talk to you about energy in the future. I will start by telling you why I believe that the energy resources of the past must be supplemented. First of all, these energy resources will run short as we use more and more of the fossil fuels. [….] But I would […] like to mention another reason why we probably have to look for additional fuel supplies. And this, strangely, is the question of contaminating the atmosphere. [….] Whenever you burn conventional fuel, you create carbon dioxide. [….] The carbon dioxide is invisible, it is transparent, you can’t smell it, it is not dangerous to health, so why should one worry about it?

    Carbon dioxide has a strange property. It transmits visible light but it absorbs the infrared radiation which is emitted from the earth. Its presence in the atmosphere causes a greenhouse effect [….] It has been calculated that a temperature rise corresponding to a 10 per cent increase in carbon dioxide will be sufficient to melt the icecap and submerge New York. All the coastal cities would be covered, and since a considerable percentage of the human race lives in coastal regions, I think that this chemical contamination is more serious than most people tend to believe.

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