The Long Trail from ClimateGate to RussiaGate

April 1, 2017

Senator Mark Warner’s intro to this week’s hearing of the Senate Intelligence Committee is a good primer on the twisting trail of RussiaGate, the penetration by a foreign power of the United State’s highest office.

That’s not where it began. Disinformation is as old as human civilization, but the targeting of science and the scientific method began in earnest with initiatives in the US to undermine the use of scientific information in regulating powerful corporations and their behavior. The lead industry, the tobacco industry, the chemical and energy industries, have all funded and participated in the long-term erosion of public trust in scientific knowledge – or even the notion that there can be scientific knowledge, that citizens only option is to choose from among “alternative facts”.

Senator Warner:

Russia continually sought to diminish and undermine our trust in the American media, like blurring our faith in what is true and what is not. Russian propaganda outlets like RT and Sputnik successfully produced and peddled disinformation to American audiences in pursuit of Moscow’s preferred outcome. This Russian propaganda on steroids was designed to poison the national conversation in America. The Russians employed thousands of paid internet trolls and botnets to push out disinformation and fake news at a high volume, focusing this material on to your twitter and Facebook feeds and flooding our social media with misinformation. This fake news and disinformation was then hyped by the American media echo chamber and our own social media networks to reach and potentially influence millions.

Former FBI Agent Clint Watts discussed Russian activities in the election here -significant at 5:25 – he notes (this is a) “duplicate of what they do to their own population, to sow disinformation so that their own population is confused.”

The innovation of the last decade has been in using the tools of social media to widen and more precisely target these efforts, and those techniques were road-tested and perfected in the attacks on climate science that took place in 2009-10, now known as “climate gate”.


The perpetrator of the “climate gate” email hack is not known to this day, but the emails first appeared on a Russian server, and Russia was one of the early suspects.
Knowing what we know today, it seems clear that attacks on climate science were all of one piece with the attack on Liberal Democracies that we are seeing today.

This knowledge makes the March for Science all the more important, as we know that not only Science is at stake, but the very right to think freely, and expand human knowledge.


100 Responses to “The Long Trail from ClimateGate to RussiaGate”

  1. vierotchka Says:

    You do realize, don’t you, that this is just a circus, a show, that it is all nonsense and lies?

    Here is some revealing information:

    • Dear vierotchka parrot for Putin,

      F you, you damn Russian troll. And F Assange and Wikileaks, too.

      You and your employers will come to rue the day when you went after our freedom. Meanwhile, stop annoying us with your stupid propaganda.

      You have not changed even one mind about even one damn thing.

    • webej Says:

      A good summary of the hysteria is given by Robert Parry:

      All the people that are building this whole conspiracy out are going to have egg on their face when it all dies out for lack of any facts. It reminds me of the 5-story luxurious cave bases the Pentagon used to illustrate the Al-Qaeda threat in Afghanistan [not one iota of this later proved to be true]. The whole story does afford us an intimate view of the twisted minds of the intelligence community who think they see writ large in Russia what they themselves have concocted (social media bots, hybrid warfare, active disinformation, influencing other countries’ election, aggression, lust for power and hegemony, etc. etc). Story of the splinter and beam.

      Lest you all forget, the name Al-Qaeda is Arabic for the base, that is, the CIA database listing their resources of radicalized Islamic fighers which the CIA started in the 80’s with their successful ploy to arm Taliban fighters commanded by Osama bin Laden to make life difficult for the Russians. The first steps toward the global war on terror.

      • dumboldguy Says:

        Vera’s “mini me” DweebyJ provides a link to the Strategic Culture Foundation, another Russian propaganda site? And cites that as “evidence”? Words escape me, so I’ll just LMAO.

        • vierotchka Says:

          The original source that has nothing to do with Russia:

          The Senate Intelligence Committee launched its Russia-gate investigation by inviting some “experts” in to rant about how everything that goes wrong in the United States is the fault of the Russians, observes Robert Parry.

          By Robert Parry

          Hahah, gotcha!

          • MorinMoss Says:

            Russia is dying a slow death that began during the Cold War and is speeding up.
            And climate change won’t help, especially if the number of methane blowholes that have been appearing over the past few years continue to increase.

            And that probably means there’ll be a another revolution and that will be very, very ugly.

          • vierotchka Says:

            “Russia is dying a slow death that began during the Cold War and is speeding up.” – “And that probably means there’ll be a another revolution and that will be very, very ugly.”

            Magical thinking, and I have news for you – magical thinking doesn’t work! LOL! Not even if you believe in fairies (which you obviously do).

          • MorinMoss Says:

            The only Magical Thinking was taking the same a-hole who ran the KGB for the Soviet Union and let him run (and run rampant) over Russia and expect it to rise to the level of an advanced Western nation.

            Russia is fortunate to have such considerable oil & natgas; were it not for those, their per-capita GDP would be lower than India’s

          • dumboldguy Says:

            Another meaningless and non-substantive answer from (pick one)
            1) The unimaginative Russian troll herself
            2) RusselCookotchka in AZ using her name
            3) The crew of Russian hackers living n their mom’s basements and using her name.

          • dumboldguy Says:


  2. dumboldguy Says:

    Excellent collection of video clips. The truth is slowly appearing through the fog of denial, obfuscation, distraction, and downright stupidity that surrounds the Trump administration. It’s now just a matter of time before the house of cards collapses.

    I said back when that Trump is the dog that chased the garbage truck, never thinking that he would catch it—–but he DID—-and now that he has his teeth firmly embedded in a tire, he doesn’t have any idea what to do. I suggest that he resign now before he gets sent to jail.

    • It’s now just a matter of time before the house of cards collapses.

      I know this, but I am a nervous wreck waiting for the conflagration. Daily, they seem to come up with new ways to chip off another piece of our republic. Damn those republicans. I’d like to see them all tried for treason.

  3. redskylite Says:

    Vierotchka – If you are genuinely concerned about Climate Change and man’s pursuit of putting nature back in balance please stop inflaming passions. There is no pleasure reading these posts of cross insults. Peter has been fighting for the planet for a good few years, sacrificed time, money and god knows what else. Tirelessly given lectures and made films, just to make a difference.

    Putin has recently indicated he does not believe mankind has caused the problems, praised the destruction of the EPA and seems to relish the exploitation opportunities that may be made available in the Arctic reaches of the country he rules over. He is not in harmony with Science and Scientific thinking. Also a lot of his opponents seem to have met with extremely unfortunate demises. You are just inflaming passions needlessly.

    I see the world in increasing disharmony. That is the very last thing we need at this time. We need political systems sympathetic to the stopping of destruction that the release of carbon is causing. l

    There is very little time left. So please get in synch and make a difference, whilst there is time. Which path do you favour ?

    “We are at the crossroads now: We either say: this thing is too big for us, this task cannot be done. [Then] we will be transformed by nature, because we will end up with a planet warming by 4, 5, 6 or even 12 degrees. It would be the end of the world as we know it, and I have all the evidence. Or we say: We’re doing the transformation ourselves.” — Hans Joachim Schellnhuber, climate scientist, Postdam Institute.

    View at

    • vierotchka Says:

      Note that I only reply that way to attacks, lies and insults directed at me.

      You are wrong about Putin, too, witness this:

      At the same time, Putin is pragmatic. When lies about Putin and Russia are posted here, I provide evidence proving them wrong, and then get attacked and insulted. I have been to Russia and Crimea to see for myself, so I know that they are nothing like your mainstream media pretends. Yes, I have some relatives in both Russia, Crimea and the Ukraine, as well as many friends there, so I also do get first-hand accounts from them – but that in no way makes me a Putin whore or a Russian troll or any of the insults hurled at me here.

      I have several times posted that if you or others don’t want me to post my gifs, all they need to do is to not respond to me or refer to me with attacks and insults but to simply ignore me or respond in an adult and respectful manner just as you have done. It is simple, it isn’t rocket science, and ot doesn’t require more than an IQ of 60 to understand this simple concept.

      With regard to climate change, I began noticing it three decades ago, and have done my part to the best of my ability, encouraging others to do so too. I recycle everything, I have reduced my electricity consumption to a minimum even though my electricity stems from hydroelectric power. I purchase only locally-grown vegetables and fruit and any organic waste goes to collectivve composting. When I need new clothes, I buy them second-hand from charity shops. I gave up my car ages ago and I walk or use public transportation. If I have to travel, I use trains. I don’t waste a drop of water (I learned how to wash with soap and water from head to toe, except for washing my hair, with only the equivalent of a coca-cola glass’ worth of water when I was in East Africa where water was very scarce) even though I live in the water reservoir of Europe, and encourate others to respect and not waste water. I have been aware of environmental problems and therefore respected the environment ever since “Silent Spring” first came out. That is most likely much more than most of you here do or have done.

      • jpcowdrey Says:

        Putin is a denier, plain and simple.

        He is also an opportunist, saying whatever to whoever to give himself a veneer of credibility to the credulous.

        But he is mainly an authoritarian dictator ruling over a kleptocratic oligarchy. A large proportion of the Russian people seem to like that. They’ve never really known anything else.

        Amazingly, greater than 100% of voters in Chechnya voted for him.

        • vierotchka Says:

          Please use sources which are not part and parcel of the lies about Putin. AFP is notorious for that, as is the New York Times.

          You really ought to eschew pontificating about things of which you know absolutely nothing.

          You manifestly are deeply afflicted by the PDS (Putin Derangement Syndrome).

          • dumboldguy Says:

            Laugh line of the day!

            “Please use sources which are not part and parcel of the lies about Putin”.

            LMAQ! Vera uses nothing BUT russian propaganda sources that are full of lies about Putin, and she expects us to NOT use sources of TRUTH? Like the AFP and the NYT, ywhich are old, large, and respected news sources—-unlike the little fly-by-night bullshit machines that Putin has set up to do his dirty work.

            Second laugh line of the day!

            “You really ought to eschew pontificating about things of which you know absolutely nothing”. We would love to have you even make the smallest attempt at “pontificating”, Vera, but since your act seems to be limited to parroting russian propaganda, that may be a stretch—-pontificating requires some intelligence and imagination

            Vera does go to a pretty good “western” source for the PDS syndrome piece—-is she broadening her outlook? Nah—-she just likes the title of the piece and what it says. Too bad Taiibi went off the deep end—-although he has written a lot of good stuff, he IS a bit of an attention-seeker, shit-pot stirrer, and one who likes to piss people off. Too bad he’s giving aid and comfort to the enemy with this piece.


      • dumboldguy Says:

        The suggestion that any of the excreta that Vera posts here can in any way be considered a “reply” is beyond laughable. As is the assertion that she is NOT a russian troll and whore for Putin. There is NO logical explanation for what VERA does here, especially in view of the fact that she HAS in the past (3 or 4 years ago) posted a number of messages on a number of sites that WERE sensible and on the right side of the climate change issue.

        What has changed? Did Vera suffer a financial setback and is she now forced to whore for russia and Putin to make money?

        And her last paragraph sounds an awful lot like things that that POS Russell Cook has written about “how green he is”. Coupled with the fact that Vera used “y’all” in a post on another thread not long ago, and Russell is the ONLY person to ever do that on Crock, I’m wondering if that joke he made about “being Vera” a whole back is really true.

        I did a time-date stamp analysis of a couple of hundred of Vera’s postings a while back, and guess what? Aside from the fact that some have appeared at every hour of the day (which makes me think Vera may also be a committee of russian trolls who have purchased her name), the best “fit” of postings with the hours of the work day is in Arizona, not Switzerland or Moscow. Hey Russell? Are “Y’ALL” really Vera as you implied ?

        Back to Vera’s whining about how she is mistreated and “attacked and insulted” here. She says we should “simply ignore her or respond in an adult and respectful manner just as Redsky has done”. What she fails to accept is that 1) she started it with the most vulgar, downright filthy, and mindless crap I have EVER seen anyone post anywhere on the web. and 2) she has NEVER talked climate science on this climate science blog, but has ONLY commented when russia or Putin were attacked.

        Earn some respect, Vera, and it will be given—keep acting like a russian troll and a stupid, disgusting, and vulgar pig of a woman and you will get more of the same from us. You are apparently too stupid or deluded to see that you lose more credibility with each filthy gif you post as a “reply”—-keep it up—-you DO succeed in crapping up the place and confusing the discussion, but you will lose on the long run, and we will piss on your grave (oops, sorry, I made a little “Vera” there).

        PS to Redsky. I am interested in seeing whether Vera responds to your “respectful” message with a meaningful reply. By “meaningful”, I mean stopping her trolling for Russia and Putin, whose actions are the biggest threat to dealing with climate change on the planet.

        • webej Says:

          What has changed?
          Seems obvious: this berserk factless narrative (“we assess”) about how the Russians are now in control of American politics, reawakening McCarthyism and cold war hysteria.
          As for ad hominem diatribes, you are the worst offender.

        • The name is Vierotchka, get it straight. Speaking of Russia and ClimateGate, y’all might want to bop over to Michael Tobis’ Planet3 blog to see if that Frank Swifthack guy is still going with his conspiracy theory on Russian hacking Phil Jones et al.’s emails. Tell him “RC” sent ya, and be sure to watch his reaction. Wish I could video record it. Oh, wait, I can …..

          Meanwhile, I was in DC week before last, didja factor that into your timestamp research? And if I live in Arizona, what’s the explanation for me having a pic of the big storms east of Dallas that Friday?

          8:59 am here by my clock, if anybody is still awake in the US monitoring.

          • dumboldguy Says:

            Russell is losing it, as is evidenced by this confused and maundering non-reply to my comment.

            WTF is he talking about with Planet3 and Frank Swifthack? No relevance. And what’s the significance of his being able to video record it?

            I did my analysis a month ago, Russell, and just sat on it until a “Y’ALL” popped up again and gave me more evidence that you have indeed taken VERA’s name. Can you explain to us how only you and Vera use “Y’ALL” out of all the commenters on Crock? If you are not one and the same, do you communicate and coordinate? Is Vera also a Heartland Whore like you?

            “And if I live in Arizona, what’s the explanation for me having a pic of the big storms east of Dallas that Friday?” is so transparently dumb that I won’t respond to it except to say that ANYONE ANYWHERE has a virtually unlimited number of photos to access on the web and post as “evidence”—-I can post a picture taken fom the top of Mt. Everest and say I took it.

            “8:59 am here by my clock, if anybody is still awake in the US monitoring” is another example of your “made up shit”—-it’s 8:36 here and your message is time-stamped 2:00 AM—-And?—-as with the “Dallas storm clouds”, don’t expect us to follow you down that rathole.

          • dumboldguy Says:

            Another feeble and non-substantive response from Russellotchka.

          • vierotchka Says:

            Count the ladybugs and leqve the grownups alone.

          • vierotchka Says:

            leave, of course, not leqve!

          • dumboldguy Says:

            Ha Ha, Russellotchka—–very funny. Y’all are still evading the issue.

          • So, it would be safe to say “dumboldguy” does not literally know how to site-specific Google searches?


          • dumboldguy Says:

            Nice try, Russellotchka—-looking for contextually different references from years back to try to deflect us from the truth about you and Vera and the other whores for Russia, Putin, and Heartland.

            You still haven’t explained all the other recent “indicators” that you and Vera are connected through—–“y’all”, comment posting times, and YOUR OWN suggestion that you may be one and the same person.

            I become more convinced that Vera is not speaking to us anyway—-no self-respecting woman of her age could be such a pig. I think that she has sold her name to a committee of fat, pimply-faced, mom’s-basement-dwelling, vodka swilling twenty-something Russian hackers, and that’s who you are connected with. (Have you registered as an agent for a foreign government? Do you demand your pay in USD rather than rubles, since rubles are losing so much value? Does your exit plan now include going to Russia?)

          • vierotchka Says:

            Hey, dumboldguy,

    • MorinMoss Says:

      “Vierotchka – If you are genuinely concerned about”

      Merchants of doubt and жополи́зов of Putin and his ilk care about nothing except pleasing the masters

  4. This vierotchka thing is getting ridiculous, and now I grow doubts if domboldguy really is a grown old guy who knows he can sometimes be dumb…

    Here’s some psychoanalysis of some Russians:

    AMY GOODMAN: Professor English, you write, “Few Russians who endured this corruption and humiliation have much sympathy [with] U.S. anger over Russian meddling in the 2016 election. And with any perspective on the [1990s], it is hard to fault them.” Can you elaborate on what the U.S. has done in Russia?

    ROBERT DAVID ENGLISH: Sure. Now we’re going back 20 years or more. But what I wrote, in part, about in that article was, if we want to understand Russia’s point of view, President Putin and those around him—and of course we do—whether or not we agree with it, we need to understand how our adversaries see us, how all other nations see us, through their eyes. And if we do that, we realize very quickly that their frame of reference has a lot to do with the mistakes and, yes, the U.S. interference in Russian politics in the ’90s, when we directly intervened in a presidential election to boost a losing candidate into a winning position—that was Boris Yeltsin—and even earlier, when we meddled in parliamentary elections and a constitutional referendum. One way or the other, the U.S. played a meddling, interfering role in Russian politics at that crucial juncture in the ’90s that’s far greater than what the Russians are alleged to have done now in the 2016 election. Now, two wrongs don’t make a right, but, again, we need to understand why President Putin, why the political elite in Moscow, kind of sees us as acting under a double standard and a lot of hypocrisy when we object to their meddling in our elections.

    • dumboldguy Says:

      Yes, Martin, This vierotchka thing is getting to be more than quite ridiculous, as it has been from nearly her first appearance on Crock. My level of self-awareness has been judged to be quite high by those who worked with me, but I am always willing to listen to “growth” advice from people who fancy themselves to be more “grown” than me. Can you point out some instances of where I have “sometimes been dumb” here on Crock?

      As for “psychoanalysis of some Russians”, I have read in many places that Putin has had an approval rating approaching 80% among Russians because what he has done is better than the murderers and thugs that came before him. In other word’s Putin’s hell is much cooler than the one that came before, and for that the Russian people are thankful.

      Good link to the discussion with Professor English, and he makes many good points, to which I say “ho-hum” and “so what”? The history of the USA right up to yesterday is riddled with hypocrisy, bad behavior, and much “evil”, as is the history of so many countries on the planet. Those of us who live in the USA are concerned with the here and now, and THAT should concern you as well. Or do you want more Hitlers rising on the planet? Or do you want Russia to manage to overrun Germany this time (which may happen if the USA is destroyed by Russian “meddling” and is no longer able to come to Germany’s defense as it did for so many years after WW2?)

      And finally, do you really see an equivalence between what we did at the tail end of a cold war that threatened nuclear annihilation and what Putin is doing now to enrich himself and his thugs?

      • vierotchka Says:

        Putin’s “hell”:

        Have you ever been to Russia? Of course not. I have, and it is no hell at all. You are merely parroting the lies spread by mainstream media? You know strictly nothing about Putin or Russia but only post total nonsense about them.

        • dumboldguy Says:

          “A few facts”, says Vera? And links us to an article on some Russian propaganda site that cites a study done by ROMIR, an “independent” Russian research company that is likely in the pocket of the Russian intelligence services? How do we know this? Simple, just check the “alternate facts” offered up in the link and compare them to the truth.

          “Russia now has an advantage over many other countries in terms of personal happiness. At the end of 2016, Russia was in 29th place, together with Sweden, Slovenia, Canada and Portugal”, it says. I wonder where it got that “29th”, since a look at the United Nations Happiness report shows Russia in 49th place, Sweden in 10th, Slovenia in 62nd, Canada in 7th, and Portugal in 89th. (The US is 14th.) Go look at the UN data—-see for yourself that someone at ROMIR is “cooking the books”

          • vierotchka Says:

            The site I linked to is a damn site better and more accurate than the propaganda site you offered! Wikepedia? Seriously? LOL!

          • dumboldguy Says:

            Caught with your baggy Russian knickers down around your ankles yet again, Vera?

            Forced to make more bald assertions about your BS being “a damn site better and more accurate”? Unsupported OPINION and NOT substantive,as usual.

            The Wikipedia refers to the United Nations report, not some fly-by-night Russian “fake news” site. Anyone can go direct to the source and check the figures. I will let Crockers decide who they wish to believe—-the UN or Darling Vera and her fake news friends.

            Here are some more statistics to mull over—-“In 2016 over 330,000 Russian citizens applied for the US permanent residence through the Green Card lottery program, a 24% increase as compared to the previous year. According to New World Wealth study, over 2,000 millionaires emigrated from Russia”. Seems like a place folks are happy to leave (?)

          • vierotchka Says:

            Russia’s Federal Government Statistics Service provides a breakdown of migration flows by country. In 2015, 299,000 of the 353,000 people who left Russia went to member countries of the Commonwealth of Independent States. For example, 36,276 people moved to Tajikistan and 94,910 to Uzbekistan. This is no brain drain; this is migrant workers returning to their impoverished homelands because the shrinking Russian economy has no work for them, or simply because their work in Russia is completed.

            There’s still a healthy flow in the opposite direction, though. In 2015, 536,157 people arrived in Russia from CIS countries. Post-Soviet economies are all in worse shape since the Russian depression began, and the former center still holds better opportunities for many Central Asian, Moldovan or Azerbaijani workers than their home countries do.

          • vierotchka Says:

            And then, the millions of Ukrainians who have migrated to Russia:


          • MorinMoss Says:

            “In 2015, more than four million Ukrainian citizens in the Rostov region drove across the state border of the Russian Federation”

            Bordering the Rostov region? Those people were mostly Russians to begin with

          • vierotchka Says:

            They are Russian-speaking Ukrainian citizens. Ukraine as a country is only a quarter of a century old.

          • MorinMoss Says:

            I have Ukrainian friends closer than family with whom I’ve celebrated their Xmas (Jan 7th for those not in the know) more than once.
            They’ve always referred to those people as “damn Russians” or something else that’s quite unflattering.

          • vierotchka Says:

            Ah, very interesting and revealing. So, you very intimately consort with Ukrainian neo-Nazis. That explains a lot and makes perfect sense.

          • MorinMoss Says:

            My particular Ukrainians have suffered at the hands of both Russians & Germans and the only 2 women, mother & daughter, who survived WW2 spent nearly decade in refugee camps in several countries before being accepted into North America in 1949.

            That daughter, now a great-grandmother and some 90 years old, still trembles when she talks about her wartime experiences.

            I expect you’ll be sipping champagne & slurping caviar while reading this.

          • vierotchka Says:

            There are only four years between the end of WWII annd 1949, so it hardly could have been decades. I’m sorry for the old lady, unfortunately she did not receive the treatment she needed with regard to her PTSD – shame on North America.

          • vierotchka Says:

            Also from that article: “According to unofficial data, today in Russia there are about 4 million Ukrainians.”

            Case closed.

          • MorinMoss Says:

            “Case closed”

            I think you meant to say “the science is settled”, right?

          • dumboldguy Says:

            Shhhhh—-don’t bother Vera with FACTS. She’s much happier living in her world of lies and delusions.

      • Ha?! Ha haaaahahahaha…. (I mean, that troll trail down the replies to your reply…)
        So, dumbo friend, here’s the first rule of internets: Don’t feed the troll, please.

        Alas, the question who is a troll, and if perhaps oneself might mutate into a troll while interacting with a troll – or a metatroll, etc. and many other questions of trollologist epistemology I wont discuss now.

        On the Putin question methinks he’s the culmination (if not fulguration) of a long process. Good that the times are over when Russian math professors complained that back home in Moskow their assistants get shot, and then wanted to know the best cereal schoko mix to take home… Now that the mafiotic has evolved or crystallized into the mega cleptocratic with a singular power broker at the helm, those math grad students might even find well-paid work in Putin’s information warfare army…

        Apropos information warfare. Amazing how this brings us back on topic…

        So, yes, dumbo, fuck the last century. No equivalencing. This is a different planet, different America, but me dunno yet if a different Russia.

        Well, heck, obviously Russia is a 20th century dinosaur with internet and mafiamoney teeth. The question is if America wants to also step back into dumb old 20th century scorched-earth economics.

  5. MorinMoss Says:

    Trump’s Russian problem is not going away and Mike Flynn’s attempt at getting immunity in exchange for testimony is a bad sign for the Supreme Oompa Loompa.

  6. webej Says:

    Let us return to facts: At the 5’11” mark senator Mark Warner claims that the Dutch “hand-counted the ballots in their recent election because they feared Russian interference in their electoral process”. The senator says hand-counted with an air of drama as if to underscore what an imposition this is and the lengths to which the Dutch had to go to preempt the Russian interference.

    But is it true? NO! Absolutely NOT!

    The Dutch cabinet decided May 16, 2008 to abolish all experiments with electronic and other voting machines startinig in 2009, and to go back to pencils and ballots. The 2010 and 2012 general elections were done entirely by pencils and hand-counted ballots, as was the recent election on Mar 15, 2017. The preamble to the decision was formed by a spate of TV programs and articles in October 2006 about the possibility of data leaks and hacking, supported by demonstrations by computer scientists, which prompted then minister Nicolaï to rescind the authorization of ballot computers on Oct 31, 2006.

    Fear of Russian interference had absolutely nothing to do with this: the decision preceded it by ten years.

    The information can be corroborated here:
    “Officielebekendmakingen” is the new name for what used to be called the Staatcourant, the Dutch Parliament’s version of Britain and Canada’s Hansard, or in the USA, the Congressional Record.

    Senator Mark Warner is therefore dishing up fake facts. The German BND also concluded recently a specific study denying that it could find any traces of Russian influence in the German electoral process.

    Citing fake facts is the ultimate disqualifier for a party whose whole narrative is based on exposing and combatting fake facts. In particular the narrative that the dastardly Russians influenced the elections by dumping true facts about the Democrats’ collusion in rigging the election against Bernie Sanders by hacking their computers, something of which there is no evidence, which they refused to allow the FBI to investigate, and which contradicts Wikileaks’ claim that it was a leak. (Wikileaks has a spotless record on asserting falsehoods, something that is definitely not true of American spook agencies, which, as two leaks in the past weeks have shown, have complete toolkits to insert fake forensic fingerprints and even to fake fingerprints of removing and obfuscating the fake language in which their computer hacks [!] have been coded.

    • “But is it true?” Haha…
      “The Dutch cast paper votes, which are tallied by hand locally. However, the regional and national collation of vote tallies are done electronically.”

      • webej Says:

        The Reuters article is bunkem: no connection to Russia fears. Ballot devices, even mechanical, have not been used since 2009. Procedures were exactly the same as previous elections.

        Of course the tallies are added electronically, but the tallies themselves leave a (paper) audit trail.

        Otherwise you would have to either add all the sub-totals by manual arithmetic, or, ?? recount all the ballots regionally and nationally, millions at a time, repeatedly, in various piles.

  7. dumboldguy Says:

    I am posting this separately as a new comment to avoid the lateral compression. It refers to Vera’s posting of the the “15 Years of Putin” graphic on 4/2 (and isn’t that a nice picture of the little weasel, all dressed up in his undertaker’s suit with the too-long sleeves?).

    Vera (or more properly, those in Russia who write her scripts) is showing talent as a cherry-picker, folks. Just as the deniers pick their years carefully to make the “there is now warming” claim”, Vera does the same with the “Russia is doing oh-so-well under Putin” argument. Nice try, but here’s some truth to digest instead.

    1) Russia suffered a huge financial meltdown in 1998, so the figures from 1999 represent a “bottom”
    2) Due to rising oil and gas prices, Russia did climb out of the hole in the 2000’s
    3) Russia suffered another financial meltdown in 2014, and the figures in Vera’s cherry-picked little “picture of hell” from 2013 dropped significantly.
    4) The continued low price for fossil fuels and the sanctions are hurting Russia badly. It’s no wonder Purin bought the U.S. presidency to get them lifted.
    5) The Russian stock market tanked in 2014.
    6) The Ruble was devalued about 50% in 2014-15.
    7) 2015 inflation was ~ 17%
    8) The 2013 reserves of $500+ billion in 2013 shrank to less than $400 billion by 1/17 as Russia tried to dig out.

    Don’t believe a word of what Vera says, folks. she is just a paid whore for Putin and Russia.

  8. dumboldguy Says:


  9. dumboldguy Says:

  10. dumboldguy Says:

    I’m new at this gif foolishness—-pardon my error at 9:08. Russia has just banned such images of Putin—-but of course free speech has never been a big thing there.

    And guess who agrees with me?

    // GIPHY

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