Drag Race: Tesla v Ferrari

January 7, 2017

Any questions?

53 Responses to “Drag Race: Tesla v Ferrari”

  1. Tom Bates Says:

    You would think you could get something more important to talk about than this nonsense. The Tesla battery caught fire a few times and the power runs out after a hundred miles. Doing drag races runs it out even faster. If you geared the gas car correctly it could accelerate a lot faster.


    • Get over it Tommy. This is the future of driving. Driven by climate change, electrification of all that we can is necessary to live a great life on earth. Otherwise we increase misery in the world by sticking with fossil fuels.

    • Mike Male Says:

      The only nonsense that appears on this blog is every single comment you make and this one of yours is no exception.

    • redskylite Says:

      Remind you of anyone ?

      Do not feed the troll” redirects here. For the Wikipedia advice, see Wikipedia:Deny recognition.

      In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic discussion,[3] often for the troll’s amusement.

    • schwadevivre Says:

      Tom, torque is king in a drag race and, in a drag race, fuel consumption is irrelevant.

      The simple truth is that changing the gearing on a car will NOT increase the torque available from the engine from 0 revs, this is why torque for gas gulpers is given for s specific rev range. Lowering the gear ratio just means the stink machine runs out of torque faster requiring more gear changes and more damage to the clutch. Electric motors deliver their torque all the way through the

      As to fires try Googling Lamborghini (or Ferrari or Maserati or McLaren or Mercedes) catches fire. note that in 2010 all Ferrari 458’s recalled due to them catching fire.


      • Tommyboy must depend on maximum ignorance possible. But I suppose mini propagandists work that way.

        http://www.businessinsider.com/17-cars-catch-on-fire-every-hour-in-the-us-2013-11

        Compared to other automakers, Tesla is small, young, and closely watched by the media, and each of the three fires was widely reported.

        So it’s good to keep in mind just how often non-Tesla cars — most of which are filled with gasoline — catch fire.

        Try 17 every hour in the United States, between 2006 and 2010. That’s more than 150,000 annually, which kill some 209 civilians every year.

        Those numbers come from a September 2012 report by the National Fire Protection Agency (NFPA), brought to our attention by Reddit user lapearce.

        And while vehicle fires hurt more than 750 people every year, the three Tesla fires caused no injuries. CEO Elon Musk, in a blog post explaining the first Model S fire, also drew on stats from the NFPA, writing:

        Americans drive about 3 trillion miles per year according to the Department of Transportation. That equates to 1 vehicle fire for every 20 million miles driven, compared to 1 fire in over 100 million miles for Tesla.

    • Torsten Says:

      Tom, you’re a stupid, boring human.

  2. redskylite Says:

    Impressive comparison – but Tesla watch out for the Faraday FF91.

    “Faraday Future’s FF91 can reportedly accelerate from zero to 60 miles per hour in 2.39 seconds, shaving precious time off the record 2.5 seconds for a Tesla Model S P100D with “Ludicrous Mode” engaged.”

    http://inhabitat.com/faraday-futures-ff91-smashes-speed-record-of-tesla-model-s-in-ludicrous-mode/


    • Quite a lot of the sports cars brands are coming with electric versions soon. They have realised that its a bit embarrassing to be left in the dust from Tesla and electrical cars in general.

      Even my humble Nissan Leaf generally puts most average fossil cars in the dust when accelerating out from crossroads. Admittedly its a bit childish even though its quite fun the first couple of times when you turn off the eco-mode on the Leaf.

      Not many years from now a vast majority of people will realize how superior the electrical car is to the old fossils. Personally I will never go back to any fossil car and most of my friends who have bought one generally say the same and are swapping out their fossils for EVs now. Ofc quite a lot were just waiting for the longer range cars in the mid-range which are coming out now. I am sure 2017 will se a doubling of sales here in Norway yet again.

      • Andy Lee Robinson Says:

        Even my home-made ebike leaves cars standing at the traffic lights, much to their surprise!

      • lesliegraham1 Says:

        You’ve hit on the most crucial aspect right there. I don’t know a single person who has gone back to the old dinosaur engine once they have experienced the power and acceleration of the new electric cars.
        Why would they?
        Everything about the experience is superior.
        And while I’m at it – I read a post from an American woman listing her maintenance costs over three years for her Tesla. Apart from tyres that is.

        She had to buy a brand now battery after just 30 months!!!

        It cost her nearly $6.
        The battery was for the remote door-opening device.
        That’s it. Total maintenance costs for the three years was just under $6.

        • lesliegraham1 Says:

          And that includes fuel costs of course. She has her own roof top solar.


        • Indeed, the service cost of the EVs are way lower due to the fact they have much less mechanical “stuff” in them in general. While early cars with electrical gadgets in them tended to have lots of issues, its becoming less of a problem in later cars (including fossil cars) from my experience.

          As for my Nissan Leaf, I paid like $300 in services in total for the first two services. I’d be lucky to get a single service for $500 here in Norway from my old fossil. And that EV service basically involved taking the brakes apart and oiling up the parts. This is because they have a tendency to rust since the regenerative brakes are doing most of the braking and the physical braking parts not getting enough “exercise”. Not sure if this is an issue on other EVs, but the general tip is on the Leaf to perform some hard breaking now and then in order to get some action in the moving parts. No doubt better tech to avoid this issue is already in line for newer EVs.

          If electricity hadn’t been so cheap here in Norway already (from hydro power) I’d likely had installed roof top solar already. But I am reading that even with our low prices, some solar installations are even able to compete on a 20 year timeline already – so in a decade I am sure more will also go solar as well. With even IKEA now offering solar panels, it might just become like a new household appliance to many.

          I use around $15-20 in electricity per month for all driving as it is now so pretty low costs. More worryingly is that public transit is getting increasingly more expensive, a single ticket to work would cost me $4 per way. So after 2-3 days I have used the same amount of money as filling my Leaf for a full month driving every work day + some weekend grocery trips. As it is now here in Norway there are still several benefits to owning an EV, cheaper or free parking, reduce/no road tolls. It all adds up to a real “no-brainer” to even consider at least not owning one EV for those households that have two cars. The range on the Leaf/Golf class is unfortunately not long enough for many who like to go hiking in the mountains or visit their cabin here so many people basically buy fossils here in order to do those trips.

          Fortunately we have no such need and neither do we need two cars (wife walks to her work which is close). The Leaf has been a brilliant to cover our transportation needs and today I see its even possible to get a used one with 30000 km usage for as low as $13000 here. That is a very cheap car here in Norway compared to all the other alternatives. The Mitsubishi iMiev is also a popular used EV here as it perfectly covers most usage for people living close or in the cities.

  3. redskylite Says:

    Even much more impressive is the start of mass production of lithium-ion batteries in Tesla’s mega-factory last week, which promises huge economies of scale, and will make a difference.

    “Tesla claims the huge economies of scale that can be achieved by focusing this volume into one site means the cost can be kept significantly lower.”

    http://www.energylivenews.com/2017/01/05/teslas-gigafactory-starts-mass-producing-batteries/

    • Tom Bates Says:

      Actually Tesla makes zero batteries,the batteries are made by a another company and tesla assembles the battery into a battery pack at its car factory.

      • mbrysonb Says:

        And?

      • Gingerbaker Says:

        Actually, Tesla is in partnership with that “other company”.

        It’s called Panasonic. And the partnership just started making batteries in the Gigafactory for PowerWalls and the Tesla Model 3 a few days ago.

        • dumboldguy Says:

          Yes, and let’s hope that they can make enough batteries that Tesla won’t push back the delivery date for the Model 3, which is already “late 2017” for the earliest “adopters” and “mid-2018” for any that are ordered today. Note that Tesla will have to deliver 400,000 Model 3’s in 18 months to keep to that schedule.

          Although some delay might actually be welcome, in that it would allow the Solar Roadway folks to cover the Earth with their product. That, in turn, would allow more folks to drive their EV’s to the spaceports to head for Mars via Space-X rockets (now that they’ve figured out why so many blew up). It’s going to be a wonderful world. Just ask all the bright-siders.

          • lesliegraham1 Says:

            Those who say it can’t be done should get out of the way of those who are already doing it.

            http://www.sciencealert.com/the-world-s-first-solar-road-has-opened-in-france

            And you needn’t bother with your standard Luddite negative reply – I’ve seen them all already when solar pv power stations were first mooted 40 years ago.
            Too expensive. They’ll never work. No demand. etc etc etc.

          • dumboldguy Says:

            Where did you ever get the impression I was a luddite? Do you have the science, mathematics, economics, and logic backgrounds to understand that ALL Solar Roadway schemes are pie-in-the-sky bright-sided wishful thinking scams that are a distraction from working on real and proven technology that can help fight AGW? Seems not—-you need to stop tiptoeing through the tulips and get educated.

            Did you even read the article you linked? Did you notice this statement?

            “…critics say the cost of building the Wattway at €5 million (about US$5.2 million) doesn’t add up, pointing out that the energy produced by the solar road costs 13 times as much as building rooftop panels”.

            Do you think that that 13X cost factor will EVER come down enough to make Solar Roadways competitive?

            It was pointed out by me and many others back when Solar Roadways first appeared on the scene years ago that it would make FAR more sense (and cost FAR less money) to simply put solar panels on poles along the roads rather than screw up a perfectly good (and cheap) road construction scheme that has been in use since the time of the Romans.


  4. Probably wouldn’t have the same luck against a 488GTB, but yeah I’d say the point is made. Bring it!

  5. Tom Bates Says:

    You AGW types would do well in say Stalin’s USSR or Hitlers SS or Pol Pots minions or even better in Kim’s North Korea. You really cannot seem to get the point that debate on any subject is the whole point of liberty. When someone disagrees with you words like troll etc, simply pour from your foaming mouths which makes you seem like you are rabid and maybe you are.

    The electric car is an over priced piece of junk that barely goes a hundred miles when you turn on the air conditioner and drive around in hilly conditions. The other car is also an over priced pile of junk which does go a lot further. Both cannot drive legally at their top speeds in any state in the USA so buying them is simply a means of men, mostly men pointing to their private parts and saying look at me I am the man, kiss my foot. Kings and nobles use to do that to the peasants, today men with millions do the same thing.

    Instead of that nonsense why not compare the different electric cars for price, mileage and amenities which mortal people without the millions can buy.

    • redskylite Says:

      Once again you are trying to disrupt a perfectly sensible post blog, and taking respondents off topic. You are either just unpleasant or being paid (or both). Today too many think tanks , governments use trolling as a weapon or means to sow disunity. People are not stupid – you will be ignored. Shame on you.

      The web brigades (Russian: Веб-бригады), also known in English media as the troll army, are state-sponsored anonymous Internet political commentators and trolls linked to the Russian government. Participants report that they are organized into teams and groups of commentators that participate in Russian and international political blogs and Internet forums using sockpuppets and large-scale orchestrated trolling and disinformation campaigns to promote pro-Putin and pro-Russian propaganda.[1][2][3][4] It has also been found that Wikipedia articles were targeted by Russian internet propaganda activities.[5][6][7]

      • redskylite Says:

        Bearing in mind recent controversy (in the U.S.A) , this is a report in the U.K press from April 2015. We should not be surprised by persistent blog disruption. Just need to filter it out of our minds, difficult but possible.

        Salutin’ Putin: inside a Russian troll house

        Instructions for the political posts would come in “technical tasks” that the trolls received each morning, while the non-political posts had to be thought up personally.

        “The scariest thing is when you talk to your friends and they are repeating the same things you saw in the technical tasks, and you realise that all this is having an effect,” the former worker said.

        Marat, 40, worked in a different department, where employees went methodically through chat forums in various cities, leaving posts.

        “First thing in the morning, we’d come in, turn on a proxy server to hide our real location, and then read the technical tasks we had been sent,” he said.

        https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/putin-kremlin-inside-russian-troll-house

    • redskylite Says:

      Fortunately, electrification of transport pools is ongoing throughout the world. Apart from less GHG emissions people’s health is at risk from fossil fueled emissions. It has recently been found that pollution particles from diesel are ending up in the human body, and have been found in dissected brains. How much do they pay you to try and persuade blog readers otherwise.
      “The investment in these zero emission buses is a part of Nottingham’s bid to reduce both greenhouse gases and improve air quality. With an expected Clean Air Zone to be in place by 2020, they are an essential part of the local authority’s anti-pollution strategy.”

      https://cleantechnica.com/2017/01/04/nottingham-uk-adds-13-byd-electric-buses-fleet-bilbao-spain-adds-2-irizar-i2e-electric-buses/

    • lesliegraham1 Says:

      “The electric car is an over priced piece of junk..”

      http://www.cnbc.com/2015/08/27/teslas-p85d-is-the-best-car-consumer-reports-has-ever-tested.html

      And range is not the issue.

      http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1071688_95-of-all-trips-could-be-made-in-electric-cars-says-study

      And in any case the next gen batteries will not only be less than half the price…

      http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/07/electric-vehicle-batteries-are-getting-cheaper-much-faster-than-we-expected/

      …they will have four times the range that you are claiming.

      http://www.businessinsider.com.au/elon-musk-tesla-could-make-a-400-mile-range-car-today-2016-6?r=US&IR=T

      So to sum up – every single thing you have claimed is demonstrably wrong.
      Which is why EV’s have hit critical mass and are taking off despite the efforts of you ‘Denier types’ and Luddites.
      It’s over for dinosaurs like you Masterbates. The world has left you behind.

      • dumboldguy Says:

        “Which is why EV’s have hit critical mass and are taking off despite the efforts of you ‘Denier types’ and Luddites?” LOL!

        In a market that sees 17,000,000+ new cars sold every year, EV’s are hardly at “critical mass and taking off” when only ~200,000 are sold in a year.

        It hardly makes one a “luddite” to point out to you self-deluded bright-siders that a ratio of 2/170 is ~1%.


        • I think you are too quick to pull the trigger here Dumboldguy. Tesla had a 400,000 commitment for down payments in a week. Tesla owns the large car luxury car in the world. Beating Mercedes Benz, Cadillac, Lexus etc. We are seeing a shift in the world. The upper middle class has spoken with their dollars.

          • dumboldguy Says:

            What part of ~200,000 EV’s out of 17,000,000 vehicles sold last year in the USA do you not understand? Tesla’s (not quite) 400,000 “commitments” for the Tesla 3 are meaningless until they actually start to deliver cars, and Tesla had never been on time with anything yet. YOU are the one who is ‘too quick to pull the trigger” with your naivete and bright-sidedness about the “shift in the world” that is happening far too slowly. Do the freaking math!

            And yes, Americans have spoken with their dollars by buying lots of SUV’s and pickups rather than EV’s with their dollars, and that includes the middle middle class and the “upper” middle class


          • I teach renewable energy at the Illinois Energy Fair. You get bubbly and its a good thing. You sir are a curmudgeon and you reward yourself thus so as your own superiority over others. If you decide to open your life to bubbly a little more so, you may be able to help the country move where the greatest need is for the earth’s future.

            That 400,000 and more cars for Tesla is about a 14 billion dollar market. Plus the Model S set the standard for winning the large car luxury market with an electric car. A lot of studies are now showing really large take overs of the market from gasoline by 2030 and 2040. We have to get the message out that gasoline sucks.

            The market is shifting like cell phones and refrigerators in the past.

          • dumboldguy Says:

            “I teach renewable energy at the Illinois Energy Fair”, you say? That’s commendable, and keep up the good work, especially since it seems to make you feel so “bubbly” and helps you deny reality, especially things like the math of 17.000,000+ vs ~200,000.

            I taught biology, physics, and environmental science back in the 60’s, sponsored the school’s Students for Environmental Action chapter BEFORE the first Earth Day in 1970, and have been involved in environmental activism of different kinds for over 50 years. I have NEVER “gotten bubbly” in all that time because it has become increasingly obvious that we are destroying the planet.

            I’m a curmudgeon, you say? Yep, more specifically I am one angry and very pissed off 76-year-old guy who has been fighting the war for more years than you’ve been alive, and I’ve gotten even more so since the disaster of November 8th. You babble some incoherent BS about my “superiority over others”. Yep again, if the “other” you speak of is yourself. You are a dilettante who does damage to the cause with your “bubbliness” and bright-sidedness, and the fact that you mean well doesn’t excuse that, nor does it entitle you to spout inane BS like “….you may be able to help the country move where the greatest need is for the earth’s future” and the rest of your comment. Only your real friends will tell you when you’re full of shit, and I’m trying to be your friend.

            The “400,000 and more cars for Tesla” have not been built yet, so the “14 billion dollar market” is actually ZERO. The “large car luxury market” is meaningless in the big picture, and you need to give us some links to “the studies (that) are now showing really large take overs of the market from gasoline by 2030 and 2040” rather than make unsupported bald assertions.

            “We have to get the message out that gasoline sucks”. Actually gasoline does NOT “suck”—-there are many reasons why we adopted fossil fuels and used them to power the industrial revolution, and just about all of the advances that have given us “modern civilization” come from the cheap “energy slaves” in fossil fuels, particularly those in oil and gas . What sucks is global warming because of the release of so much CO2, and if that wasn’t happening nobody would much care about electric cars.

            You show your naivete yet again by trying to conflate the development of cell phones, refrigerators, and automobiles and speaking of “shifting markets”. Technologies develop and mature, but that does not always produce “market shifts”. Cars and refrigerators of today would still be recognizable to time travelers from 1900. and they won’t look or work much differently 50 years from now.


          • Put a quarter in you Dum and you just roll on and on. You love your cynicism more than you do your optimism. How were you even a teacher with that kind of feeling you have. Its good to sell things. I’m selling an optimistic future about clean energy and what it can do. Especially electric cars. Sooooo anyone that is bubbly is niave? Do I get that correct?

            https://about.bnef.com/blog/electric-vehicles-to-be-35-of-global-new-car-sales-by-2040/

            Continuing reductions in battery prices will bring the total cost of ownership of EVs below that for conventional-fuel vehicles by 2025, even with low oil prices.

            London and New York, 25 February 2016 – The electric vehicle revolution could turn out to be more dramatic than governments and oil companies have yet realized. New research by Bloomberg New Energy Finance suggests that further, big reductions in battery prices lie ahead, and that during the 2020s EVs will become a more economic option than gasoline or diesel cars in most countries.

            The study, published today, forecasts that sales of electric vehicles will hit 41 million by 2040, representing 35% of new light duty vehicle sales. This would be almost 90 times the equivalent figure for 2015, when EV sales are estimated to have been 462,000, some 60% up on 2014.

            http://www.theicct.org/sites/default/files/publications/ICCT_ghg-reduction-potential-evs_201512.pdf

            Governments’ electric vehicle targets amount to
            more than 30 million cumulative electric vehicles
            by 2025. In 2014, the share of new vehicles that
            are plug-in electric vehicles is about 0.5%—2% in
            most major vehicle markets, although a number of
            particular markets are showing substantially greater
            penetration. Allowing for near-term supply constraints,
            electric vehicle sales share could increase
            to at least 10%—15% across leading markets around
            2025. This would amount to a massive deployment of
            electric vehicles and will require improvements in the
            electric vehicle supply chain, far greater auto manufacturing
            scale, lower cost next-generation electric
            vehicle models, and sustained regulation and support
            from governments.

          • dumboldguy Says:

            Jeffrey, Jeffrey, Jeffrey—-your mindless cognitive dissonance and denial of truth makes it very hard to be your friend. You are “selling an optimistic future”, you say. I will try again to educate you, and I won’t even ask you to “put a quarter in me” (whatever that glib, smug, and childish phrase means). What you are selling is better called “brightsidedness”, and you would do yourself a favor if you read Ehrenreich’s book on the topic.

            Yes, yes, I know that you young folks don’t want to read actual BOOKS and rely on twitter and facebook and reading mostly just the titles and first few sentences of things you google for your expertise. I sent my grandson (a sophomore with a 3.5 GPA at one of the nation’s most prestigious colleges) a link to an article and asked him what he thought about it. He responded with “It’s 20 PAGES LONG! You expect me to read that?” I suspect you and he would get along for at least a little while.

            As far as “Sooooo anyone that is bubbly is niave?(sic) Do I get that correct?” No, you again fail miserably in the areas of reading comprehension, logic, and cognitive dissonance. If you were really trying to understand, you would realize that I’m speaking about YOUR naivete specifically, and only by extension of others who are “bubbly” the way you are. I try to deal with each case individually, and you are a rather extreme outlier among the “bubblies”—–your motivated reasoning is crippling you, and I’d like to help.

            “I love my cynicism more than you do my optimism”, you say? Actually I love rational analysis of fact more than I do bubbly bright-sidedness and the ignoring of facts because they conflict with one’s beliefs and emotional attachments, which is what you do here.

            “How were you even a teacher with that kind of feeling you have?”, you ask?. What kind of “feeling” is it that I have, Jeffrey? I loved science and loved teaching kids to think scientifically and understand the world around them. I was named Biology Teacher of the Year in the greater Washington DC area by the Joint Board on Science Education of the Washington Academy of Sciences in 1970, both for what I did in the classroom and the work I did “selling” environmental awareness at my school. Got a nice meal and a nice plaque at the awards dinner, and my picture in the paper.

            You say you’re selling an optimistic future about clean energy and what it can do. Especially electric cars. And you give some links to PROVE that the future is optimistic.? More naivete on display. First, economic studies are not “research” in the same way that scientific research is. Economics is a “voodoo science” that has brought us many financial disasters over the years, the last being The Great Recession. Anyone who views Bloomberg New Energy Finance as anything more than a tool for the greedy rich to play their Ponzi games and bleed more money from the 99% is a fool.

            You are even deluded enough to quote from the “study” and shoot off half your toes?

            “The study, published today, forecasts that sales of electric vehicles will hit 41 million by 2040, representing 35% of new light duty vehicle sales. This would be almost 90 times the equivalent figure for 2015, when EV sales are estimated to have been 462,000, some 60% up on 2014”.

            Are you even capable of doing the math?

            1) 2040 is 23 years from now. Economists doodling on paper have NO idea of what is coming, just as they had no idea of what was coming in in 2007.
            2) If 41 million = 35% of all car sales in 2040, then total car sales in 2040 will be about 120 million (and ~80 million of them will STILL NOT be EV’s).
            3) Have you looked at the figures for how slowly use of coal is decliing? (especially since all bets are now off—-President Pussy Grabber is going to bring coal back and it’s going to be CLEAN and soooo wonderful). More EV’s means more electricity, and coal is what we use to generate too much of our electricity. (and don’t bother citing “studies” of wind and solar in response—we’re moving too slowly there as well)

            Oh, I forgot—-you don’t want to deal with facts, logic, or rational analysis—-you’re too busy being “bubbly” and selling pie-in-the-sky.


          • Dum:

            You just reinforced my points. You are right and I am wrong. Your view is the correct one and mine needs correcting according to you.

            You are entitled to your point of view no matter how cranky you get.

            If you need to correct me with your superior mind then do so.

            I am a little younger than you and not as cranky.

            Enjoy your sullenness.

          • dumboldguy Says:

            Jeffrey, I thank you for my morning laugh. Sullen? Me? I don’t really want to give psychology and vocabulary lessons in addition to all the other things I’m attempting to teach you but you are projecting YOUR juvenile “sullenness” onto me, and there are dozens of better words you could have used as you attempted another feeble shot at me. Get a freaking thesaurus or “Vocabulary for Dummies” book!

            (And to illustrate my point, what’s a “dum”? “Dumb” makes better sense, and DOG has become common usage among Crockers. Is using such a “malaprop” a symptom of your chronic and dysfunctional “bubbliness” and false “politeness”? Does leaving the “b” off dumb somehow make it better?)

            In the canine world (and in many other animal societies and most human societies), the “pups” give a certain amount of respect to the old D.O.G.’s and accept whatever lessons the old are trying to impart. Among real dogs, a growl, bark, nip, or bite is usually enough to get the pup’s attention and “educate” them. If you were a wolf in a pack, your obstinate and mindless cluelessness would probably result in your death—–the pack can’t afford to have unwilling-to-learn fools that endanger its safety.

            “You just reinforced my points. You are right and I am wrong. Your view is the correct one and mine needs correcting according to you”. Yep, definite signs of projection there. (See preceding paragraph on learning from those whose age, experience, and education far outweigh yours)

            “You are entitled to your point of view no matter how cranky you get”. Actually, considering how rapidly things are going to hell in a handbasket, I would restate the complete thought about opinions—–that “One is entitled to their point of view BUT NOT THEIR OWN FACTS” (and crankiness and bubbliness are irrelevant). You deny facts, and that’s what I’m attempting to deal with here.

            I have no NEED to correct you with my superior mind—–I do so because I care about you and the future of the planet (which will soon be in the hands of your generation) and because the saying “once a teacher, always a teacher” IS true. When The.Shit.Hits.The.Fan in 2030 or 2040, I will be long gone—-it’s too bad that you will likely not listen to me and others like me until then. Bubble on, child!


          • The electric car market is expanding at about 40% a year. This is about how wonderful the expansion is. I will leave you to your sense of annoyance with me. Enjoy it.

          • dumboldguy Says:

            JeffurryBrain needs another math, statistics, and logic lesson, apparently. Once a teacher, always a teacher. Sigh!

            Year 1) 40% of 200,000 = 80,000

            Year 2) 200,000 + 80,000 = 280,000
            40% of 280,000 = 112,000

            Year 3) 280,000 + 112,000 = 392,000
            40% of 392,000 = 157,000

            Year 4) 392,000 + 157,000 = 549,000

            Enough—-anyone who cares can google up a compound interest calculator tool and plug in the 200,000 staring point and the 40% rate of increase. Then they can think about how this is all just projection by voodoo economists and is meaningless as a REAL picture of the future, which is highly likely to include an economic meltdown brought on by Trump, and that will cause EV sales to nosedive. Also take a look at the 17,000,000+ yearly sales for vehicles that is FACT and then make the stupid assertion that “40% increase (from such a very low base) is wonderful”. Mindless confirmation bias, cognitive dissonance, and motivated reasoning is what it is.

            JeffurryBrain makes another feeble attempt at a put down with “Enjoy your annoyance”. You don’t annoy me, Jeffurry, you sadden me—and your bright-sided denial of math, science, and logic is shocking and frustrating. You are annoying in the same sense that “stepping in a present from the dog world” while mowing the lawn is annoying, although that is easily dealt with—-cleaning you up is far more difficult.

            This is the last nip-ark-growl this foolish young pup is going to get from this old DOG. He is unteachable. His heart is in the right place, but he is likely to get his throat ripped out by the wolves when the SHTF. Too bad, but Darwin rules!

          • dumboldguy Says:

            “ark” = “bark”


          • You have shown yourslf to not think out of the box. Do you think this will only be linear? This is ground floor to the future there fella. Get a little optimism in you.

  6. dumboldguy Says:

    I tried to post a comment (twice) and it disappeared into the WordPress fog. Perhaps because I said that something Bates said made some small bit of sense and that even a blind and retarded squirrel sometimes found an acorn?

    Any questions? Yes, many:

    Why are we comparing the performance of a $200,000 Ferrari with that of a $150,000 Tesla X P90D “Ludicrous”, considering how out of touch with economic and environmental reality BOTH cars are?

    Why are we giving any credence to a half-assed amateur “race” illegally conducted on a public highway? Especially since the moron driving the Ferrari doesn’t appear to know what he’s doing? (And the F430 is a 10-year-old design—-as others mentioned, why not the 488GTB, which WOULD likely beat the Tesla X, especially if it didn’t have the $10K Ludicrous add-on package)

    Everyone knows about the torque and acceleration advantage of EV’s (and that 500hp internal combustion engines put out a lot of power). Why does ANY vehicle have to reach 60 mph in under 3 seconds?

    As I said in my “disappeared” comment, why are we not focusing on the fact that EV sales are still only a very small fraction of car sales?


    • Its the rip ass little mind excitement and thrill of power. I have a 64 hp Mitsubishi imiev of which I only use about 10 to 20 hp most of the time.

      • dumboldguy Says:

        I won’t ask why you bought the Mitsubishi rather than a Nissan Leaf, but it hardly compares to the Tesla and Ferrari in cost or “rip ass little mind excitement and thrill of power”. I DO know what you’re talking about, though—-my 1957 Morgan got me to 60 mph a lot faster than your little bucket and made nicer sounds doing it (and gas was $.25 a gallon and AGW was not a concern).


        • I got a 22,600 mile car 3 years old for $6500. The mitsubishi that is. The cost of replacing the batteries is $6000. Its cheap and reasonable in roominess. A quite practical car for its size.

    • lesliegraham1 Says:

      “…Why are we comparing the performance of a $200,000 Ferrari with that of a $150,000 Tesla X P90D…”

      I would have thought it was obvious.
      If you genuinely can’t see what the author is trying to demonstrate then I don’t think there is any point in anyone trying to explain it to you.

      • dumboldguy Says:

        I’m a bit surprised because, based on his many previous comments on Crock, I thought he had more sense, but Leslie has just earned himself instant induction into The Order of the Perfumed Sleeve Hanky with this comment—–he can now sit on his high horse of imagined superiority and sniff away to his heart’s content.

        What’s “obvious” is that Leslie is so offended by something I have said that he is going out of his way to find fault with my comments. I must warn him that I am a charter member of P.O.O.P. (People Offended by Offended People), and know how to deal with the “offended”, especially when they are so wrapped up in their fault finding that they overlook the OBVIOUS and misread the meaning and intent of what they’re attacking. I will repeat my question with emphasis added so that Leslie may perhaps better understand his logic fail.

        “Why are we comparing the performance of a $200,000 Ferrari with that of a $150,000 Tesla X P90D “Ludicrous”, CONSIDERING HOW OUT OF TOUCH WITH ECONOMIC AND ENVIRONMENTAL REALITY BOTH CARS ARE?”

        Why does Leslie find it so “genuinely difficult” to see that I most certainly DID see the author’s point? Let me explain it to him (I’m sure all other Crockers got my point). A demonstration of the torque superiority of EV’s COULD have been done with comparable EV and internal combustion powered vehicles in a price range that was more “real” and using vehicles that are likely to become common on the roads.

        The vast majority of people on this planet have never seen (and will never see) an F430 and can’t imagine spending $200.000 on a car. The same goes for the $150,000 “Ludicrous”. But then again, if Leslie genuinely can’t see what my point was, I don’t think there is any point in trying to explain it to him, so I apologize for wasting people’s time.

  7. Canman Says:

    The most interesting piece I’ve read on electric vehicles lately is this one by Rud Istvan:

    https://judithcurry.com/2016/11/02/vehicular-decarbonisation-two-new-technologies-to-watch/

    This could be a breakthrough for Chevy volt type cars.

    • dumboldguy Says:

      Interesting indeed, and the fact that it came from Judith Curry’s blog makes it even more so. Lots of folks looking to get rich from some far out technologies—-let’s hope some of them pan out. Personally, I’m waiting to hear about a breakthrough in fusion power—-I’ve been hopeful ever since visiting the earliest Stellarator at Princeton over 50 years ago.

      • Canman Says:

        The author, Rud Istvan, is a big critic of big Tokomak type fusion projects. He sees some promise in LENR (low energy nuclear reaction). The late Julian Schwinger, who shared the Nobel prize in physics for quantum electro dynamics with Richard Feynman, was interested in LENR.


  8. Enjoyed the video…

    Great sound, great shifting by the driver of the Ferrari.. ahh yes… drive it like you stole it….. lol

    The Tesla on the other hand…(holding my nose.. yuck….yuck… YUCK!!!!)

    If I had to pick between the two I would say that the overall carbon foot print is less with the Ferrari than the Tesla…. But, then again, I am not to impressed with the newer Ferrari’s, I prefer my cars without computers…. that way I can fix them myself… and I don’t have to “bend over” for the dealer….. either Tesla or Ferrari…..

    I would not own a Tesla….. they will not age gracefully…. nor will they hold their value.

    Ferrari owners don’t typically drive their cars very many miles… (snark, lol….)

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/

    Yes I am a member…1986 Testarossa… white… single flying mirror…


    • I’m done with gas engines. Good ridance to them.

    • dumboldguy Says:

      My, my, Louise—-you plutocratic little dilletante, bragging to us about your white 1986 single mirror Testarossa!. In what field of endeavor did you ever make enough $$$$ to be able to afford one? Those of us in education drove Volvos.

      Great sound? Naaaah, not from a V-8—-the truly great sound came from the 12 cylinder Testarossa engines, and really only from the unmuffled ones on the 250TR race cars of the late 1950’s—-I heard my first one at Bridgehampton, and the experience bordered on the orgasmic. Seeing that engine with it’s 6 dual barrel downdraft Webers lined up on top was also a once-in-a-lifetime experience—-I couldn’t afford to put two Weber two barrel sidedrafts on the TR-3 engine in my Morgan, but DID dream about it.

      And “great shifting” by the Ferrari driver? Naaaah again, not with a semi-auto transmission with paddle shifters. Great shifting takes place when you have a clutch, gear box with shift lever, and a gas pedal that all need to be synchronized. That’s what we had back in the day when we “drove it like we stole it”, and we gave meaning to the word smokin’.

      I agree with you on the Tesla—-aside from being (somewhat) environmentally positive and having all that torque, they don’t offer much. We don’t see many Teslas or EV’s in the DC area—-we ARE overrun with every Prius model ever made, however.

      We don’t see all that many Ferraris here any more either—-the traffic is now so bad (and the drivers so incompetent), that local Ferrari drivers are apparently leaving them in the garage. There was a doctor in my area in NO VA 25 years ago (when the traffic was much lighter) that drove a Ferrari red Testarossa (don’t remember how many mirrors) all over the place as his daily car for several years. Often parked beside him at the supermarket or rode alongside him in the 40 mph stop-and-go on the shopping strip—-saw the car a couple or three times a week . Loved to see the car from behind—-the rear tires were as “fat” as those on a dragster.


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