Libertarian: Burn it all. In 4 Billion Years it Won’t Matter.

September 23, 2016

Comforting news for your children from Libertarian Presidential candidate Gary Johnson.

In 4 billion years the sun will expand to engulf planet earth, so why worry about climate change?

Don’t laugh – I hear versions of this argument all the time.

Millenials,  you might want to review your support for this guy. There’s such a thing as smoking too much weed.

USAToday:

Libertarian candidate for president Gary Johnson believes that humans aren’t being shortsighted by ignoring climate change, but are simply taking the “long-term view.”

“In billions of years, the sun is going to actually grow and encompass the Earth, right? So global warming is in our future,” the former New Mexico governor said during a 2011 National Press Club luncheon event. 

In a 2011 clip, surfaced by Mother Jones, Johnson discusses his “long-term view” on climate change and his stance on government spending to combat climate change.

His thoughts: if the world is going to meet a fiery end, why throw money at the problem now?

Johnson notes in the 2011 speech, he does not believe the United States should be involved in cap and trade taxation, and should instead lend “certainty” to the energy fields.

“When you look at the amount of money we are looking to spend on global warming — in the trillions — and look at the result, I just argue that the result is completely inconsequential to the money we would end up spending,” he said. “We can direct those moneys to other ways that would be much more beneficial to mankind.

I hear all the time from these “God’s eye view” idiots.   Technically, it’s true the sun will one day die by expansion, (See Below), this is meaningless to all that human beings will ever know, experience, or love. Your grandchildren will not be impressed by your cosmic view, Gary.

 

Finally, if you haven’t had enough, here’s more Johnson weirdness.

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27 Responses to “Libertarian: Burn it all. In 4 Billion Years it Won’t Matter.”

  1. fredeliot Says:

    He should also worry about our collision with the Andromeda galaxy.

  2. Magma Says:

    “Once upon a time there was a wise libertarian, and he…”

    Sadly, the rest of that old fairy tale was lost centuries ago and now survives only as a rumor.

  3. florasforum Says:

    Do you ever post on Jill Stein? She’s the only one who takes global warming seriously.

    • greenman3610 Says:

      Stein is not a serious person, and has made statements about climate change that are not grounded in science or fact. Any support for Stein contributes directly to a Trump victory, and, I believe, planetary disaster.

      • webej Says:

        Please enlighten us with some specific examples, say three. I am not familiar enough with her campaign, and anything I google turns out to be from deniers or about sideshows like vaccines & toxins. I tend to think of her as far and away the most serious and best-schooled candidate.
        I also fail to see how voting for her is a vote for Trump. A vote for Trump/Clinton is also a vote to continue the duopolistic no real democratic choice that is now in place. If you think serious change to the political system, the economy, social-political problems, let alone energy and climate change will come from affirming the present set up, you will soon be disappointed all over again. America needs to turn out all the current compromised bums and start with a new slate of politicians, doesn’t matter that much who, as long as they are not already paid for by private interests.
        The “you are either with us or against us” is the worst possible slogan in a democratic society whose true strength lies not in catering to the majority’s prejudices, but in the power of reasoned, public debate (much like the paradigm of science).

        • dumboldguy Says:

          You fail to see how voting for Stein is a vote for Trump? Have you figured out yet that a vote in FL for Nader in 2000 was a vote for George W. Bush? And that those votes changed the direction of the country? You may “think” of her as the “most serious and best schooled” candidate, but if she really were, she would not have run at all and would be devoting her talents full-time to STOPPING TRUMP by working for Clinton’s election.

          That is after all, the point of the whole thing—-not pie-in-the-sky intellectual rantings about “throw the bums out” or “sending a message” or “starting with a new slate of politicians”, and the laughable thought that our country’s strength lies in “reasoned public debate”—-what passes for “debate” in this country today is in NO way comparable to “the paradigm of science” because one side has lost its collective mind and no longer accepts FACTS as a basis for forming its ideology..

          We are faced with the possibility of electing as president a sick and despicable human being who will likely end up causing the demise of the country. (And on the tombstone will be engraved “RIP USA 1776-2017 You Were Once a Great Country). Wake the F**K up and stop dreaming—-yes, many things are wrong with the political system, but we are NOT going to be able to turn it upside down and change it overnight, so the best and ONLY alternative right now is to elect Clinton and hope for the best—-incremental progress.

          And a short note on Libertarianism. Magma hits it with the idea of a “wise libertarian being only a rumor”, and this Moron Johnson proves it. Libertarianism seems attractive and might have made some small sense centuries ago, but “low taxes, small government, less regulation, more freedom” is unworkable in today’s world, where our ONLY chance for survival is through GOOD government at all levels. We are at risk not because of “the majority’s prejudices” but because a small minority has perverted the ideas of libertarianism into a “get mine first at the expense of the majority” mentality. The Kochs, the plutocracy, the corporate oligarchy, the capitalists, and the Wall Street types are all busy working against what you hope for. Have you read Dark Money?—-do so and have your eyes opened.

          • Glen Bennett Says:

            Ok, you embrace mythology and are cynical and fearful. Now tell us about your enthusiasm for Hillary Clinton. Even if she is ‘less evil’ than Trump, is that what we are reduced to? You don’t mention Bernie Sanders’ short lived influence on Hillary. Hillary is under contract and it’s not to her voters.

            George Washington said about political parties in his farewell presidential speech:

            The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism.

            That is where the Republican/Democrat duopoly has us today.
            Where is it written that a particular politician has a birthright to my vote?
            When you buy a car do you only choose between Chevy and Ford?

            Proud Green Party member and Jill Stein voter.

          • MorinMoss Says:

            There’s a lot more to be done than preventing Trump from taking office; the Dems have to take back at least one of either the House or Senate, preferably both.
            If both remain in Republican hands, Hillary might as well go on vacation right after inauguration and stay there until the midterm elections

          • dumboldguy Says:

            True only to a point.

            Getting back the House is a long shot unless things between now and the election go so badly for Trump that there’s a Clinton landslide and a huge “coat tails” effect. The possibility of taking back the Senate is much more realistic, and that’s all we need to start moving on SCOTUS appointments.

            If both houses remain in the hands of the Repugnants, Hillary will still be able to accomplish some things by executive order and keep some bad things from happening with vetoes of bad legislation.

            I shudder to think what might happen if Trump wins the White House and the Repugnants take both houses. If the best we can achieve is the kind of gridlock we’ve had for the past couple of years, so be it—-with any luck, the Repugnants will continue to alienate the voters by their obstructionism and the midterms will go better.

          • dumboldguy Says:

            To Glen Bennett

            Anyone who calls himself a “Proud Green Party member and Jill Stein voter” is the one who “embraces mythology” (as well as cognitive dissonance). Have you seen any unicorns lately, Glen? The Green Party has elected less than a handful of people to Congress over the years and seldom gets even 1/2 of 1% of the vote in presidential elections.

            Nice rhetorical but meaningless bullshit here, although I DO like the strongly intellectual finish with the non sequitur of “When you buy a car do you only choose between Chevy and Ford?”.

            As for “cynical and fearful”, one of the young teachers who worked for me told me one day that she had finally figured me out—-she said I was a “cynical idealist”—-which I could agree with and added that I was at times also a “pessimistic optimist”.

            On the other hand, IMO you are someone who just likes to hear himself talk. “Republican/Democrat duopoly” my ass—-you are tilting at windmills and wasting your vote.

        • greenman3610 Says:

          https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/08/17/jill-stein-just-went-overboard-on-sea-level-rise/?utm_term=.7399f9dba550

          Wash post explains her nutsy over-the-top statement on sea level rise

          Ive listened in to real experts flip their lids about this kind of credibility-killing hyperbole.

          Steins anti vax statements are not a side show, they go to the heart of the problem – pandering to conspiracy theorists and nutjobs that do nothing to move us forward

          http://www.salon.com/2016/08/03/jill_steins_anti_vax_game_how_and_why_the_green_party_candidate_is_pandering_to_the_anti_vaccination_crowd/

          http://wonkette.com/605241/no-jill-stein-wifi-isnt-cooking-our-childrens-brainzzzz

          As to her Presidential suitability, regardless of the rightness of the cause, vandalizing property is not the behavior we expect from a serious presidential contender

          https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2016/09/07/jill-stein-faces-charges-after-spray-paint-incident-protest/NYlzcwLEVf7UWpoe9jYhgJ/story.html

          “with us or against us” is not my formulation. I say that “there’s not a dime’s worth of difference between al gore and george bush” is an experiment that we’ve already run, and it got us 911, iraq, an economic collapse, ISIS, 100s of thousands dead, millions homeless and on the run in the middle east, leading to global instability — and citizen’s united – a supreme court ruling that might have already ended democracy as we know it, as well as any hope of dealing with climate change, or any other threat that comes from extreme wealth and power.

          “turn out all the compromised bums” is not a selection on the ballot.
          “Doesn’t matter who” is a stunning statement of nihilism and ignorance.
          If you believe that allowing Trump to appoint more supreme justices, and a record number of federal judges – whose seats the GOP has been holding open, will somehow allow us to recover our footing as a democracy, then you are irredeemably naive, and I have nothing more to say to you.

          • Gingerbaker Says:

            “Wash post explains her nutsy over-the-top statement on sea level rise

            Ive listened in to real experts flip their lids about this kind of credibility-killing hyperbole.”

            Her statement was based on the April presentation by Margaret Davidson, NOAA’s senior advisor for coastal inundation and resilience science and services, and Michael Angelina, executive director of the Academy of Risk Management and Insurance in a conference session titled “Environmental Intelligence: Quantifying the Risks of Climate Change.”

            “Davidson said recent data that has been collected but has yet to be made official indicates sea levels could rise by roughly 3 meters or 9 feet by 2050-2060, far higher and quicker than current projections. Until now most projections have warned of seal level rise of up to 4 feet by 2100.”
            [http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2016/04/12/405089.htm]

            Are you going to repudiate NOAA, or these scientists… or just Jill Stein?

            “As to her Presidential suitability, regardless of the rightness of the cause, vandalizing property is not the behavior we expect from a serious presidential contender”

            So, if so-called “vandalizing property”, as you describe a brave act of political protest, is a Presidential disqualifier for you, then one would logically assume your moral and ethical standards for a candidate would be quite high.

            I gotta ask – how then do you feel about Hillary Clinton lying to the Justice Department (strange she wasn’t under oath at the time, eh?), using illegal e-mail accounts, abetting the DNC in election fraud and then hiring the abettor-in-chief? How about accepting money from Saudi Arabia for her Clinton Foundation which pays her offspring’s salary, and then giving the Saudi official special access to her as Secretary of State?

            Are you going to repudiate Hillary for these transgressions…. or just Jill Stein?

          • greenman3610 Says:

            >Are you going to repudiate NOAA, or these scientists… or just Jill Stein?
            Well aware of the provenance. Have discussed with best sea level experts on the planet.

            so,
            Yes. Both.

            > a brave act of political protest

            not particularly brave to spray some paint while cameras whir and followers cheer.
            I’ve been witness to much braver acts that have taken place in obscurity, with
            no reward, ego or otherwise.

            As to your litany of republican talking points, these have all been thoroughly investigated, and much like the kind
            of climate denial bullshit talking points that I go thru ad nauseum – found to be groundless.
            Scandalous, for instance, that a Saudi official should meet with the Sec of State. Pardon me if I don’t clutch
            my pearls.
            Fact remains that Trump is the candidate of the one hundredth of one percent, and the degree to which they
            hate Ms Clinton, and have for 25 years, is the greatest evidence of just how much a threat they feel she
            is to them.

          • Gingerbaker Says:

            These are not Republican talking points – they are progressive liberal talking points. No need to be insulting! These issues have NOT all been investigated. They have not all been dismissed by rational observers, merely by obsessed Hillary supporters.

            What is interesting is the double standard you bring to the discussion of two female Presidential candidates. Jill Stein, whose support of Native American territorial rights you claim is neither brave nor responsible but is criminal and therefore disqualifying. For spray painting a bulldozer at a protest.

            And Hillary Clinton – whose election fraud conspiracy with the DNC is documented and now freshly admitted by the players themselves in legal briefs(!), you dismiss as a false vetted Republican talking point. Vetted? The fact is that the only investigation which has been done documents that the odds of Clinton’s primary win occurring without widespread fraud are at 1 in 77 billion. Exit polling did not match election results by a factor six times higher than what the U.N. says is fraud, -> with no exit polling discrepancy at all in the Republican primary, anywhere.<-

            This, to me, is the biggest and saddest story of this election. Not just that Sanders won that primary. Not just that he would easily defeat Trump. But that very clearly there was election fraud by Democrats, and Democrats don't care. And this candidate you love hired Debbie Wasserman Schultz for her personal staff the instant the news cycle made the DNC throw her under the bus because of her central role in election fraud. THIS is the candidate you think we all should be voting for, though, isn't it?

            Thanks, but no thanks.

          • greenman3610 Says:

            sorry, you left out the part where she was born in Kenya. If you’re not willing to research your statements, I’ve got my hands too full with climate deniers to help you out. Tell your grandkids you were true to your ideology.

          • webej Says:

            Thanks for the input. I had heard about the 9 feet but had forgotten about it; I don’t think it will do that much harm to the credibility of the climate crisis, only Anglo-Saxon nutters may use it for ammunition. Living below sea-level I have been very impressed over the last few years by the research about glaciers and ice sheet dynamics — it almost invariably turns up the level of worry concerning potential scenarios.
            The paint spray will not convince me she is unsuited. As for the vax stuff, I have decided years ago not to read about it, too boring, too little return on investment. I still think Stein has the best platform and the most real concern for the well-being of the whole of society.


  4. […] Source: Libertarian: Burn it all. In 4 Billion Years it Won’t Matter. | Climate Denial Crock of the Week […]

  5. MorinMoss Says:

    What did you expect from a Libertarian? I think they should have picked that Gandalf–looking dude with the boot on his head


    • Hell, yeah, Vermin Supreme promises to make sure everybody gets a free pony!!!

      Here’s what I think about Johnson. I do not see him as “evil” in any sense, just very misinformed on what’s happening around the world. He seems pretty personable in a “Disneyland dad” sort of way; not fatherly, mind you, but like the fun dad who will let you get away with anything. He may have been governor of New Mexico, but beyond that he’s not qualified.


  6. […] via Libertarian: Burn it all. In 4 Billion Years it Won’t Matter. — Climate Denial Crock of the Week […]

  7. redskylite Says:

    “Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die” – Also a couple of super volcano eruptions and a large asteroid collision or two to get through, before the Sun plays up. Lets hope NASA, Musk and co can get us off world in time as per Stephen Hawking’s advise. Let’s worry about more immediate problems that we can still minimize if we are sane enough.

    https://www.saatchiart.com/art/Painting-Fast-Forward-Sold/427725/1864009/view

    • dumboldguy Says:

      Nice painting, Robert. It’s neat when you just happen to have some art “hanging around” that illustrates a topic so nicely.

      As for Musk and company saving the human race by going to Mars, did you see the video of the spectacular blowup on the launch pad of the Space-X rocket? Progress is not being made.

      In spite of what Hawking says in all his genius (geniuses are capable of wishful thinking too), and what interplanetary colonization scheme Musk has cooked up to separate fools from their money, the human race is an EARTH species, and a few dozen or hundred or even thousands surviving by superhuman efforts on a planet that won’t support Earth life is a fool’s dream and a bad bet (or have I said all that before?—-we old guys tend to repeat ourselves).

      • redskylite Says:

        The greenman has moved on in his posts at a cracking pace, keeping up with the latest events. I read this today and think it belongs here in yesterday’s news. The science of Earth and it’s systems has a deep pocket.

        “Showing a star on the throes of death at the center of the colorful web of gas, experts say the image is suggestive of the changes faced by ageing stars, including ebbing shine, as energy creation dips from the irregular crashing of outer layers.

        As rings of outer gases start falling, massive ultraviolet light radiation exposure takes place. The radiation helps the gas shells glow and contributes to the beauty of the nebula.

        The released photo was a composite of three images taken at different intervals. Showing specific wavelengths, the image had nitrogen representing red wavelength, oxygen blue and hydrogen green.

        Scientists believe that the sun, too, will have a colorful end, stripping off the outer layers and revealing the burning core. It will gradually cool, with the ember turning into a white dwarf.

        “By that time, Earth will be long gone, burnt to a crisp as the Sun dies,” ESA noted, adding that despite this, the sun’s end will make an impact as it will shine across the universe.”

        http://www.techtimes.com/articles/179207/20160926/nasa-hubble-capture-sun-like-star-s-colorful-end.htm

  8. ubrew12 Says:

    “Shall we take the long term view on Global Warming? Because the long term view is that in billions of years the Sun is going to… encompass the Earth!”

    How is that not a prescription for doing nothing on ANY subject?

    “Lets fight a Civil War to free the Slaves”
    “the long term view is that in billions of years the Sun is going to… encompass the Earth!”

    “Lets feed the starving souls of Calcutta”
    “the long term view is that in billions of years the Sun is going to… encompass the Earth!”

    “Lets eradicate Guinea worm from Africa”
    “the long term view is that in billions of years the Sun is going to… encompass the Earth!”

    “The long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead. Economists set themselves too easy, too useless a task if in tempestuous seasons they can only tell us that when the storm is past the ocean is flat again.” John Maynard Keynes

  9. nickreality65 Says:

    The Great Climate Change Bamboozle

    “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”
    H. L. Mencken

    Earth’s carbon cycle contains 46,713 Gt (E15 gr) +/- 850 Gt (+/- 1.8%) of stores and reservoirs with a couple hundred fluxes Gt/y (+/- ??) flowing among those reservoirs. Mankind’s gross contribution over 260 years was 555 Gt or 1.2%. (IPCC AR5 Fig 6.1) Mankind’s net contribution, 240 Gt or 0.53%, (dry labbed by IPCC to make the numbers work) to this bubbling, churning caldron of carbon/carbon dioxide is 4 Gt/y +/- 96%. (IPCC AR5 Table 6.1) Seems relatively trivial to me. IPCC et. al. says natural variations can’t explain the increase in CO2. With these tiny percentages and high levels of uncertainty how would anybody even know?

    Mankind’s modelled additional atmospheric CO2 power flux (W/m^2, watt is power, energy over time) between 1750 and 2011, 261 years, is 2 W/m^2 of radiative forcing. (IPCC AR5 Fig SPM.5) Incoming solar RF is 340 W/m^2, albedo reflects 100 W/m^2 (+/- 30 & can’t be part of the 333), 160 W/m^2 reaches the surface (can’t be part of the 333), latent heat from the water cycle’s evaporation is 88 W/m2 (+/- 8). Mankind’s 2 W/m^2 contribution is obviously trivial, lost in the natural fluctuations.

    One popular GHE theory power flux balance (“Atmospheric Moisture…. Trenberth et al 2011jcli24 Figure 10) has a spontaneous perpetual loop (333 W/m^2) flowing from cold to hot violating three fundamental thermodynamic laws. (1. Spontaneous energy out of nowhere, 2. perpetual loop w/o work, 3. cold to hot w/o work, 4. doesn’t matter because what’s in the system stays in the system) Physics must be optional for “climate” science. What really counts is the net W/m^2 balance at ToA which 7 out of 8 re-analyses included in the above cited paper concluded the atmosphere was cooling, not warming (+/- 12.3 W/m^2). Of course Dr. Trenberth says they are wrong because their cooling results are not confirmed by his predicted warming, which hasn’t happened for twenty years. (“All of the net TOA imbalances are not tenable and all except CFSR imply a cooling of the planet that clearly has not occurred.”)

    Every year the pause/hiatus/lull/stasis continues (IPCC AR5 Box TS.3) IPCC’s atmospheric and ocean general circulation models diverge further from reality.

    As Carl Sagan observed, we have been bamboozled, hustled, conned by those wishing to steal our money and rob us of our liberties. Hardly a new agenda.

    BTW I have a BSME same as Bill Nye so I’m as much a scientist as he is.

    http://joannenova.com.au/global-warming/

    “The term Lysenkoism is also used metaphorically to describe the manipulation or distortion of the scientific process (e.g. CAGW) as a way to reach a predetermined conclusion as dictated by an ideological bias, often related to social or political objectives.”


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