NASA on Arctic/Antarctic Sea Ice

October 13, 2014

Nice quick synopsis of arctic/antarctic sea ice changes.

 

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16 Responses to “NASA on Arctic/Antarctic Sea Ice”


  1. At the moment, it’s an inconvenient time to be defending AGW due to the significant increase in Antarctic ice, and an increase in the floating Arctic ice cap relative to 2012 when it hit a record low.

    While I’m sure that there is much crowing right now at WTFUWT, we need to keep focused on the long term. Unfortunately, there are too many people (on both sides of this debate) who view every snow storm and every heat wave as “proof” of their position.

    I’m not sure if I’ll still be alive when Miami disappears permanently beneath the waves, but I wouldn’t recommend to any young person that this is the time to invest in southern Florida or Louisiana real estate.

    On the other hand, if you’re a believer in wind power (I’m not, but…) you might want to invest in an onshore wind farm in southern Florida right now. In just a few decades, it will be an offshore wind farm, which wind power proponents claim is the future. Might as well get in at the ground floor.

    • dumboldguy Says:

      “Unfortunately, there are too many people (on both sides of this debate) who view every snow storm and every heat wave as “proof” of their position”.

      I object to the insertion of “(on BOTH sides of this debate)”. It’s the deniers who gleefully point to snow storms as “proof” (and ignore heat waves). Those who believe in AGW are usually found soberly saying “while we can’t say any particular weather event is caused by AGW, the evidence seems to say….”

      That’s a huge difference in “positions”.


      • “I object to the insertion of “(on BOTH sides of this debate)”. It’s the deniers who gleefully point to snow storms as “proof” (and ignore heat waves). Those who believe in AGW are usually found soberly saying “while we can’t say any particular weather event is caused by AGW, the evidence seems to say….”

        If you’re talking about climatologists, then yes, they aren’t likely to make this mistake. But I do know people among the AGW believers who attribute every heat wave as “proof” that AGW has arrived. In fact, I was talking to a friend the other day who is a big sports fan and is concerned that the next World Cup and Summer Olympics won’t be possible due to AGW which will make it too hot to hold these games.

        Sadly, Peter himself has sometimes jumped the gun this way, though I realize that he’s under pressure to come up with news to keep readers interested, and that’s not always easy. I recall back in February there was a point where the floating Arctic ice cap hit a record low for the month and Peter made it into a big headline on this blog. Shortly thereafter, the ice slowed down its melting. If I’m not mistaken, this year is ranked number 7 in terms of the ice minimum – not a record, but certainly not a sign of a healthy Arctic ice pack either. Of course, WTFUWT cretins are saying this is proof that the Earth is getting cooler.

        In other news, this year’s El Nino predictions have turned out to be overblown…so far. However, we still might wind up with a new world record high average temperature for the year. I’ll hold off making predictions though, until January 1, 2015.

        The trouble with making predictions is that you can be wrong.

        • lesliegraham1 Says:

          I think you are still missing the point – which was that there are not two sides to any debate here.
          There is the overwhelming evidence from a century of research by tens of thousands of scientists and there is an insane denial of reality.
          That’s not a debate.

          • dumboldguy Says:

            I agree. I may have said it a bit less directly than you did, but that was my point also..

        • dumboldguy Says:

          “The trouble with making predictions is that you can be wrong?” What constitutes “wrong”? Ehrlich was not wrong with Population Bomb, just early by many decades and off a bit in elucidating the mechanisms involved. Anyone who doesn’t accept his basic premise is deluding themselves. It isd still a valid prediction.

          And this year’s El Nino predictions are “overblown”? Says who? El Nino-La Nina predictions have always been difficult, the year is NOT over, and many said that it would be 2015 before we saw it appear. They will only be overblown IF the event occurs AND turns out to be less than what the predictions say.

          And you will hold off making a “prediction” on whether 2014 is the hottest year ever until 2015? LOL That’s like trying to bet on a horse race after it’s over.

          Can you tell us of any predictions about global warming that have turned out to be grossly “wrong”? Timing and magnitude may miss sometimes, but it seems to me that the climate scientists are doing pretty well in a new field that is well under a century old on a planet that is 4.5 billion years old.


    • “Both sides of this debate”

      Why is it that people who are more ignorant of the subject put more energy in defending it then researching it?

      Try spending a little time research how science works!

      Global Warming Believers are to Global Warming Deniers as Gravitational Believers are to Gravitational Deniers.
      Global Warming, Anthropogenic Global Warming, or Anthropogenic climate change is now indisputable. From 13 National Academy of Sciences
      “The need for urgent action to address climate change is now indisputable.” G8+5 Academies’ joint statement: Climate change and the transformation of energy technologies for a low carbon future

      http://www.nasonline.org/about-nas/leadership/president/statement-climate-change.pdf

      So ask yourself who would be more knowledgeable The National Academy of Sciences (all of them) or Watts with just a high school degree.

      Science is the methodology of investigation where the preponderance of the events dictates the position of reality. Non- Science is the belief in reality without any events to support it.

  2. redskylite Says:

    On the Antarctic this article in today’s climate central reports on recent research suggesting that the expansion of Antarctic sea ice heralds ocean changes that will hasten ice sheet melting, by trapping heat beneath a layer of cold surface water, worsening flooding around the world.

    “The observational data that we have access to at the moment is showing that similar conditions are, in some areas, beginning to get established,” Golledge said. “This is kind of a warning bell. We can see things happening that probably happened before, and we know what the end game was.”

    http://www.climatecentral.org/news/antarctica-ice-melt-sea-level-18155


  3. […] Nice quick synopsis of arctic/antarctic sea ice changes.  […]

  4. redskylite Says:

    In a recent paper the US National Geodetic Survey details geothermal activity under Marie Byrd Land in Antarctica, which obviously exacerbates the melt.

    Interested to see the excited reaction of some deniers to the paper, who home in on it as the sole cause of melt/sea level rise.

    So it is O.K to admit melt when it is caused by geothermal/volcanic activity, but not when it is caused by raised temperatures and ocean currents (exacerbated by radiative forcing properties of mankind’s greenhouse gases emissions).

    If they are not in the oil/gas/coal mining business or a politician (or not related to James Watt/Anthony Watts), they must have a subconscious/unconscious guilt complex or some such.

    Reminds me of myself as a child insisting I didn’t break something (when I knew I did), if you say it long enough to yourself you can believe it.

    http://www.reportingclimatescience.com/news-stories/article/second-paper-geothermal-heat-melting-west-antarctica.html

    • dumboldguy Says:

      Just finished a sci-fi/cli-fi novel titled The 6th. Extinction by James Rollins—more adventures of Sigma Force, many of which take place under the ice in Antarctica. One of the major premises of the book is that there IS warmth and water and different forms life down there, and the author has expanded that to potentially world-destroying levels. A good read.

      Won’t spoil it by going further, but we have known about the geothermals (even including volcanoes and flowing lave) for some time, as well as many lakes like Lake Vostok. It has been going on and causing melting since long before the climate deniers were even born, but they will grasp at any straw in their desperation. It seems as if they do nothing but attempt to cherry pick and distort any new info that comes out—-I guess that’s to be expected, since all their old stuff has been debunked and repeating it endlessly doesn’t seem to be working.


  5. Scientific inquiry is not a debate. Debate establishes who can speak better. Science is a set of rules for how to determine and predict the natural world. The foundation of scientific inquiry is that questions are settled by rules and experiment. Bias and emotion, the hallmarks of debate, are specifically excluded.

    There are rules and guidelines that are traditional in journalism, that are founded in the notions of multiple, authoritative sources and references, to name just one.

    Civilization depends on such bedrock notions. They are being attacked by intellectual Luddites.

    Sea ice affects albedo, but not directly sea level. When the ice is gone, the sea heats much faster. Land ice, as in Greenland and Antarctic does affect sea level directly. Both Greenland and the Antarctic are losing land ice. Sea ice increases in Antarctic are less than losses in Arctic. Care must be taken here, because the point of interest in sea ice is its minimum, which occurs at opposite seasons. A simultaneous composite hides the more important data.

    None of this is new here. Sometimes it gets obscured.


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