Will Media Crack the Door on Climate Coverage?

January 14, 2013

With the noteable, glowing exception of the bright, brilliant and essential UP with Chris Hayes, coverage of climate issues, even in this year of searing heat and falling records, continues to be abysmal. Apparently, coverage of the biggest issue of the millennium is not yet considered essential enough to bump Honey BooBoo and Kim Kardashian off the mainstream media.

Could that be changing?

Media Matters:

Even In Record-Breaking Year, Broadcast Climate Coverage Remained Minimal. In 2012, the U.S. experienced record-breaking heat, a historic drought, massive wildfires in the West, and Hurricane Sandy. Meanwhile, Arctic sea ice extent shattered the previous record low and the Greenland ice sheet saw thegreatest melt in recorded history. According to the National Climatic Data Center, 2012 was the warmest year in recorded history for the contiguous U.S. Yet despite these illustrations of climate change, the broadcast news outlets devoted very little time to climate change in 2012, following a downward trend since 2009:

In Four Years, Sunday Shows Have Not Quoted A Single Scientist On Climate Change. Of those who were asked about climate change on the Sunday shows, 54 percent were media figures, 31 percent were politicians and not one was a scientist or climate expert. This is consistent with a previous Media Matters analysis which found that none of the Sunday shows quoted any scientists on climate change between 2009 and 2011. By contrast, two-thirds of those interviewed or quoted on the nightly news programs in 2012 were scientists. [Media Matters4/16/12]

Sunday Shows Obscured Scientific Consensus On Climate Change. Not only did the Sunday shows shut out those who accept the science of climate change, but they also failed to inform their audiences that the vast majority of climate scientists agree that climate change is occurring and is driven by human activity. Only 11 percent of coverage implied that scientists agree on global warming, while 44 percent failed to correct a guest who questioned the science. By contrast, 60 percent of nightly news coverage alluded to the scientific consensus.

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27 Responses to “Will Media Crack the Door on Climate Coverage?”


  1. [...] With the noteable, glowing exception of the bright, brilliant and essential UP with Chris Hayes, coverage of climate issues, even in this year of searing heat and falling records, continues to be a…  [...]


  2. Where and why do you come up with garbage like what you present and want people to believe that it is the truth?

    “The current NOAA claim is that 2012 is 1.0 degrees Fahrenheit warmer than 1998, but 1934 used to be 1.1 degrees Fahrenheit warmer than 1998. This means that prior to adjustment, 1934 was hotter than 2012.
    The blink comparator below shows the huge changes which have been made to the US temperature record since 1999. The past has been massively cooled, and the present has been massively warmed. A cooling trend has been turned into a warming trend, by adjusting the data.”

    “Over the 11-year span from 1930-1940, a large part of the region saw 15% to 25% less precipitation than normal.
    http://www.srh.noaa.gov/ama/?n=dust_bowl_verses_today
     
    “Severe drought in 1934 covered 80% of the country, compared with 25% in 2011
    In June, 1934 the entire country had triple digit heat. We didn’t come anywhere close to that this summer.”
    http://docs.lib.noaa.gov/rescue/mwr/062/mwr-062-06-0212.pdf

    Greenland ice sheet mass balance reconstruction. Part I: net snow accumulation (1600-2009)
    Journal of Climate 2012 ; e-View
    doi: http://dx.doi.org/10.1175/JCLI-D-12-00373.1
    ”We find a 12% or 86 Gt y-1 increase in ice sheet accumulation rate from the end of the Little Ice Age in ~1840 to the last decade of the reconstruction. This 1840-1996 trend is 30% higher than that of 1600-2009, suggesting an accelerating accumulation rate. The correlation of Ât(G) with the average surface air temperature in the Northern.”
    http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/JCLI-D-12-00373.1

    Lets take a look at the most active hurricane seasons on record:
    Year # of Storms # of Hurricanes
    2005 22 12
    1931 21 10
    1969 18 12
    1995 19 11
    1936 16 15
    While is true that 2005 has been recorded as the worst year ever, 1931 and 1936 are not far behind. Furthermore, note that back then there were no weather satellites to track storms from above. If a storm formed out to sea and then blew itself out, no one noticed. If a hurricane formed but didn’t hit land, it wasn’t recorded.
    <http://www.epicdisasters.com/index.php/site/comments/coldest_and_warmest_days_in_the_united_states/

    As Thomas Huxley famously stated: "The great tragedy in science: the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an ugly fact". And in this case many facts that counter Media Matters assertions, all of which are false.

    • greenman3610 Says:

      Let me just quickly say that if you are quoting a paper by Jason Box (Greenland ice sheet mass balance reconstruction. Part I: net snow accumulation ) as evidence that Greenland is increasing mass, you have a problem. Dr. Box is a friend and advisor to this series, and has made it clearer than clear that Greenland is in negative mass balance, and that loss is accelerating, and alarming.
      see here

      I have had many conversations with Jason over the last few months, – if you’ve actually been reading the blog, as opposed to just dropping stink bombs from time to time, you’d know that I hope to go to greenland with him this summer. In fact I posted on this yesterday.
      http://climatecrocks.com/2013/01/17/the-guardian-dark-snow-project-brings-people-power-to-climate-science/
      Will be posting some of those conversations in coming weeks, stay tuned.

      The “Gish Gallop” technique that you use is tried and true. Throw out a whole bunch of sciencey sounding stuff, and you can usually assume no one will have time to look it up, and you will succeed in confusing the issue. Tobacco apologists and creationists perfected it. Generally works on the Fox and Friends circuit. Not so much here.
      My approach is, generally, when I notice that commenters, are distorting the stuff that I already know about – I don’t have to go and look up the other stuff, because they are generally distorting that as well. Because I always assume stupidity before malice, it may be that you are just be confused about net snow accumulation as opposed to current mass balance, but I’ll clarify with Jason next time I talk to him. Hows that?

      It IS confusing.It’s NOT easy.
      That’s why I talk to the actual researchers to make sure I’m not deluding myself.


      • If you are at Greenland summit now you had best have your BEST coat with you if you go outside to watch the ice sheet melt before your eyes.

        status:weather
        summit station
        Conditions
        -44 C -47 F
        9.0 knots
        119 degrees ESE
        660 mb
        2013-01-18 04:35
        http://www.summitcamp.org/status/weather/index?period=month

        • greenman3610 Says:

          You were surprised to find its cold on top of an ice sheet?
          Did you think I would be surprised?
          Do you suppose that the world’s climate scientists do not know that?
          Could it be that major sources of mass loss are due to processes not taking place at the summit?
          Is it possible that you’ve missed something?


          • Peter; Your reply to my cluing you in to what the conditions were at the Greenland summit was predictable and, as usual, with out any information presented. In September, 2011 I used the Lemosho route to climb Kilimanjaro and after leaving the warm, in the rainforest, 6,560 ‘ Big Tree campsite, and went to the 12,630′ Shira Camp #2 it froze hard there that night and every night there after until we got back to Mweka Camp on the way back where it had rained hard on us most of the way down and all day coming the rest of the way out. Mind you that Kilimanjaro is 205 miles South of the equator and it is extremely cold on the summit and that is where the glaciers are.

            I had read this that follows and it shows just how deceptive and downright dishonest some that preach this anthropogenic global warming are and they must have never been on the mountain or they would have known what they were saying is total nonsense, but does that matter to these kind of people?

            “What the future holds for Kilimanjaro’s glaciers”
            “Whatever the reasons, if Kilimanjaro is to lose its snowy top, the repercussions would be extremely serious: Kilimanjaro’s glaciers are essential to the survival of the local villages, supplying their drinking water, the water to irrigate their crops and, through hydroelectric production, their power; never mind the blow the loss of the snow-cap would deal to tourism.
            And these are just the local consequences. If the scientists are to be believed, what is happening on Kilimanjaro is a microcosm of what could face the entire world in future. Even more worryingly, more and more scientists are now starting to think that this future is probably already upon us.”
            http://www.climbmountkilimanjaro.com/about-the-mountain/the-glaciers/climate-change-and-kilimanjaro/index.html

            Anyone that has ever been on the mountain knows that one only encounters trickles of water and they do not come from the glaciers directly to the point that getting water on the trail is difficult. If these people can’t tell the truth, then why do they think so many people are becoming skeptics regarding this issue. The water that these “folks” mention all comes from the lower reaches of the mountain and has nothing to do with the glaciers.

            Where is your Crock of the Week about this?
            Brutal Cold Shivers the Upper Midwest to New England
            UPDATED 9:30 PM EST, January 23, 2013
            Residents from the Upper Midwest to New England will remain locked in a deep freeze through the end of the workweek. Even worse, dangerously cold, even life-threatening wind chills won`t relent for a few more days; with the lake-effect snow machine cranking out more burst of snow along the Great Lakes shores. I would guess that this kind of news does not fit your narrative.

          • greenman3610 Says:

            guess it’s time for my annual debunking of
            the
            “Ah looked out may winder, an there wuz snow, so there cain’t be no clay-mut change” crock.


          • guess it’s time for my annual debunking of
            the
            “Ah looked out may winder, an there wuz snow, so there cain’t be no clay-mut change” crock.

            Peter; I feel I owe you an apology for seemingly causing you to slip to the intellectual level of the majority of your fellow “Alarmist” that would have you make this statement: “Ah looked out may winder, an there wuz snow, so there cain’t be no clay-mut change” because I know from past association with you that you can be much more articulate than that. Please allow me to point out briefly just what some other folks in different parts of the world have seen this year, 2013, when they “looked out may winder”.

            This one has some great photos of what people in Russia are seeing when they LOOK out of THEIR windows.
            Snowpocalypse Russia: ‘Snow tsunami’ swallows streets, cars, buildings (PHOTOS)
            Published: 18 January, 2013, 22:27
            Edited: 19 January, 2013, 13:46
            http://rt.com/news/winter-snow-russia-weather-275/

            Maybe, Peter, you can incorporate this video into what you are putting together for the winter of 2013.
            Snow slab hits fireman saving baby (VIDEO)
            Published: 17 January, 2013, 23:48
            Edited: 20 January, 2013, 12:54
            http://rt.com/news/fireman-child-snowbank-magadan-220/

            This one has some great photos also, especially the palm trees all covered in snow is beautiful.
            Snow scares: IDF urges avoidance of Golan minefields after worst storms in decades
            Published: 11 January, 2013, 17:41
            Edited: 11 January, 2013, 23:41
            The army’s warning comes after Israel was hit by the worst snowstorm in 20 years which shut down schools and government offices, and brought public transport to a halt.
            http://rt.com/news/snow-isreal-golan-mines-788/

            Coldest weather in decades hits India; group says 107 dead
            By Manoj Kumar | Reuters – Thu, Jan 3, 2013 12:57 PM EST
            NEW DELHI (Reuters) – The coldest weather in northern India for at least 44 years has killed more than 100 homeless people, an aid group said on Thursday.
            […}
            Winters in northern India have become colder in recent years, said Rajendra Kumar Jenamani, a scientist at the Meteorological Department.
            http://weather.yahoo.com/coldest-weather-decades-hits-india-group-says-107-144707393.html

            India Bone-Chilling Cold Weather Surprises Northern Parts Without Heating Systems
            Added by guardian on January 3, 2013.
            As many as 114 people have died due to cold temperatures in India
            Meteorologist M Duraiswamy said that January 2 was the coldest day in the last 44 years.
            […]
            Overall, conditions are terrible throughout the region and official can do nothing but hope for temperatures to rise soon. Moreover, what has made the conditions even worse is the absence of resources like heating systems that could mitigate the cruel low temperatures.
            http://guardianlv.com/2013/01/india-bone-chilling-cold-weather-surprises-northern-parts-without-heating-systems/
             
            Posted: 9:50 p.m. Wednesday, Jan. 2, 2013
            Bay Area cold snap drives homeless indoors
            LIVERMORE, Calif. —
            The new year is starting off with a cold snap in the Bay Area and freezing temperatures are beginning to take a toll on pipes, plants and people.
            In some parts of the Bay Area, temperatures were expected to dip into the 20′s Wednesday night.
            http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/local/bay-area-endures-cold-snap-drives-homeless-indoors/nTktP/
             
            Bitter cold grips northern New England
            Updated 6:25 am, Thursday, January 3, 2013
            CONCORD, N.H. (AP) — Temperatures will struggle to make it out of the teens throughout much of Northern New England.
            http://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Bitter-cold-grips-northern-New-England-4163785.php
             
            2013/01/03 14:51 KST
            Record cold snap grips Korean Peninsula
            SEOUL, Jan. 3 (Yonhap) — A prolonged cold spell sent the mercury plummeting nationwide on Thursday, with temperatures dropping to their lowest levels in decades, the country’s weather agency said.
             […]
            The South Korean capital city of Seoul recorded a temperature of minus 16.5 C in the morning, the lowest in 27 years since a minus 16.9 C was recorded in 1986, the Korea Meteorological Administration (KMA) said.
            http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/national/2013/01/03/67/0302000000AEN20130103005900315F.HTML
             
            China records coldest temperature in 28 years; ice and snow disrupt traffic
             By Associated Press, Updated: Saturday, January 5, 7:54 PM
            BEIJING — China is experiencing unusual chills this winter with its national average temperature hitting the lowest in 28 years, and snow and ice have closed highways, canceled flights, stranded tourists and knocked out power in several provinces.
            […}The average temperature in northeast China dipped to -15.3 degrees C (4.5 degrees F), the coldest in 43 years, and dropped to a 42-year low of -7.4 degrees C (18.7 degrees F) in northern China.
            In some areas — northeastern China, eastern Inner Mongolia, and north part of far-western Xinjiang province — the low has hit -40 degrees C (-40 degrees F), the administration said.
            http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/china-records-coldest-temperatures-in-28-years-ice-and-snow-disrupt-traffic/2013/01/05/0715b9c0-5729-11e2-8a12-5dfdfa9ea795_story.html
             
            Mercury drops to record low in much of China
            Updated: 2013-01-03 07:56
            By Wang Xiaodong (China Daily)
            In Inner Mongolia autonomous region, north of Beijing, the temperature has dropped to -40 C with snow on ground piling up 50 centimeters in some areas of the Greater Hinggan Mountains.
            http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/epaper/2013-01/03/content_16077726.htm

            You will also notice that these locations are widely dispersed; therefore, making your argument about the MWP and the LIA seems somewhat difficult to understand if, as you maintain, they were confined to Northern Europe only.


  3. Maybe you have a problem unless there an another Jason Box that you do not know about.

    Taken together, the imagery shows that glaciers in the region were melting even faster in the 1930s than they are today, said Jason Box, associate professor of geography and researcher at the Byrd Polar Research Center at Ohio State. A brief cooling period starting in the mid-20th century allowed new ice to form, and then the melting began to accelerate again in the 2000s.
    “Because of this study, we now have a detailed historical analogue for more recent glacier loss,” Box said. “And we’ve confirmed that glaciers are very sensitive indicators of climate.”

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/05/120529144339.htm

    • greenman3610 Says:

      right. same Jason Box, similar distortion. Regional warming in the arctic during the 1930s is, I believe, well known, temporary, and limited.
      That leaves you in a quandary. You can believe a press report that is incomplete, or you can believe what the scientist is telling you. Or you can subscribe to some elaborate conspiracy.
      Generally, when I am confused about what the science literature says, which happens a lot – I go the authors for clarification.

      And now I’ve seen that science daily article from deniers twice in a month, so that’s a great grain for another video.
      Another tip – try to understand the original sources, and the original research, not just the press reports.
      In this case, I have the actual paper mentioned by the science daily article, “An aerial view of 80 years of climate-related glacier fluctuations in southeast Greenland” from nature geoscience:

      “Since the mid 1990s, sections of the Greenland Ice Sheet margin have been retreating significantly1, 2, leading to glacier speedups and dynamic ice loss3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. Notable are the major changes in southeast Greenland. Evidence from the Gravity Recovery and Climate Experiment mission10, 11, 12, radar interferometry13 and a global positioning system14 show significant increases in the mass-loss rate and glacier velocities in this region since late 2003. This acceleration is partly attributed to increased dynamic thinning triggered by rising air and ocean temperatures9, 15. However, although the mass loss of the entire ice sheet has steadily increased16, glaciers along the southeastern margin decelerated and advanced in 2006 (refs 3, 5, 17), suggesting episodic rather than steady changes in frontal positions.”

      –note, the references 10, 11,12, noted here are to recent papers all pointing to increased melt and mass loss on greenland, using different methods of measurement, and here, in the reference numbered 16, “mass loss of the ice sheet has steadily increased” they point to Rignot, Velicogna, et al 2011,
      which says

      ” In 2006, the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets experienced a combined mass loss of 475 ± 158 Gt/yr, equivalent to 1.3 ± 0.4 mm/yr sea level rise. Notably, the acceleration in ice sheet loss over the last 18 years was 21.9 ± 1 Gt/yr2 for Greenland and 14.5 ± 2 Gt/yr2 for Antarctica, for a combined total of 36.3 ± 2 Gt/yr2. This acceleration is 3 times larger than for mountain glaciers and ice caps (12 ± 6 Gt/yr2). If this trend continues, ice sheets will be the dominant contributor to sea level rise in the 21st century.’

      Note also the mention that ice loss of the entire ice sheet “has steadily increased”, the southeast glaciers behaved differently than the whole “suggesting episodic rather than steady changes in frontal positions”.

      There are several mentions, as well, in the paper of a temporary, regional warming from 1919 to the early 1930s.

      later, they say
      “Throughout the 80 years of observation, the southeast Greenland glaciers have undergone widespread retreat, with only a few glaciers advancing (5%) or remaining stationary”

      several paragraphs in the paper underline the regional and temporal nature of the observations from the 30s
      “The retreat in the 2000s is more uniform with only 5% of the 132 glaciers advancing.”

      they conclude:
      ” the recent record-setting high temperatures have resulted in an unprecedented extent of glacial retreat in southeast Greenland, which should continue with a persevering temperature increase. Our results have implications for future estimations of sea-level rise as retreat rates for marine-terminating glaciers are likely to increase as temperature rises until glacier fronts reach the grounding line, or when cold ocean currents re-establish,”

      -

      Meanwhile, you can see yet another interview with Box here, as well
      as Eric Rignot, (mentioned above – he is married to co-author Velicogna) another of the world’s most respected ice sheet experts from Jet Propulsion Lab, and an occasional co-author with Box.

      which, again, you would have seen here if you were paying attention.
      Also, the raw interview with Rignot

      The definitive reference from 2012 is the collaborative IMBIE ( ice sheet mass balance inter-comparison exercise) which Dr. Rignot references – a cooperative exercise between NASA and the European Space agency
      http://imbie.org/imbie-2012/results/

      “Examining the ice sheet regions individually we show that the Greenland, West Antarctic and Antarctic ice sheets have all lost mass over the past two decades, whilst the East Antarctic ice sheet has undergone a slight snowfall-driven growth. The Greenland ice sheet has lost the largest mass and accounts for about two-thirds of the combined ice sheet loss over the study period. In Antarctica, the largest mass losses have occurred in the West Antarctic Ice Sheet. However, despite occupying just 4% of the total ice sheet area, the Antarctic Peninsula has accounted for around 25% of the Antarctic mass losses.”


      • State of the Climate
        Global Snow & Ice
        October 2012
        ”The October 2012 Southern Hemisphere sea ice extent was 18.88 million square km (7.3 million square miles), 3.36 percent above average and the third largest October sea ice extent in the 1979-2012 period of record. Antarctic sea ice extent during October has increased at an average rate of 0.9 percent per decade, with substantial interannual variability.”
        http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global-snow/2012/10

        The Northern Hemisphere snow cover extent (SCE) during December 2012 was much above average. The monthly SCE was 46.3 million square km (17.9 million square miles), which was 3.0 million square km (1.2 million square miles) above average and the largest December SCE on record for the hemisphere. The previous record large December SCE occurred in 1985 at 46.0 million square km. (This all seems to be out of line for your earth with a fever contention; but, I’m sure that you can get some to stand in an airport and clarify it for your fans)
        http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global-snow/2012/12

        It is hard to know just who to believe when this is what was done with the temperature record to GET 2012 to be hottest on record for the lower 48 states:
        As of 1999, NASA showed that 1934 was more than one degree (Fahrenheit) warmer than 1998, and that 1921, 1931 and 1953 were all warmer than 1998.
        They now show that 1934 is about 0.1C or 0.2F cooler than 1998. In other words, the total downwards adjustment of 1934 is almost 1.3 degrees Fahrenheit relative to 1998.
        The current NOAA claim is that 2012 is 1.0 degrees Fahrenheit warmer than 1998, but 1934 used to be 1.1 degrees Fahrenheit warmer than 1998. This means that prior to adjustment, 1934 was hotter than 2012.
        http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2013/01/11/noaa-temperature-fraud-expands-part-1/

        I know that since the truth doesn’t seem to be of extreme importance to you, that none of the above that has to do with “cooking the books” regarding temperatures matters but it bothers me greatly.

        I lived in the arctic for 14 years and know something about permafrost and what effects it and there have always been naturally occurring occasions where it is disturbed and melts.
        Arctic treeline advance not as fast as previously believed
        Carey Restino | The Arctic Sounder | Mar 18, 2012
          http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/arctic-treeline-advance-not-fast-previously-believed
        Forget global warming, Alaska is headed for an ice age
        Alex DeMarban | Dec 23, 2012
        In the first decade since 2000, the 49th state cooled 2.4 degrees Fahrenheit.
        http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/forget-global-warming-alaska-headed-ice-age

        • greenman3610 Says:

          I’ll follow my method of just taking one nonsense gish galloped cherry pick at a time, and trashing that, as opposed to wasting my time on all of them.
          re “Antarctic Ice is increasing” crock —Once again, the trick is to talk to the actual scientists who take the measurements.
          and, once again, of course, I have a video.


          • “re “Antarctic Ice is increasing” crock —Once again, the trick is to talk to the actual scientists who take the measurements.” What’s the deal here Peter, Now you are claiming that the people at NOAA’s State of the Climate section that compile the data for the Global Snow & Ice report are not actual scientist. This is the information that I presented to you that you seem to want to discount in favor of having some dude stand against the wall in an airport bar and give their version of what he or she thinks that the situation is. While I was and am very disappointed in the way NOAA distorted the actual temperature records to make out that 2012 was the warmest year in the lower 48 when in fact as, everyone knew, 1934 holds that honor; but, I find it strange that now because their findings go against what you want to believe, they are suddenly not worthy of your confidence. Then you accuse people of cherry picking.


  4. Peter; I watched your inspiring videos and was very impressed with Charles Miller who has the astounding ability to see and smell methane and carbon dioxide, both of which are odorless and invisible. The rest of the conjecture was, as usual, not backed up with any facts and in any endeavor, facts are important.

    “right. same Jason Box, similar distortion. Regional warming in the arctic during the 1930s is, I believe, well known, temporary, and limited.” So Peter, if something happens that goes against your narrative it is a distortion to be discounted and not explained.

    “There are several mentions, as well, in the paper of a temporary, regional warming from 1919 to the early 1930s.”
    You must mean this series of incidents but you do not say why it happened. Is there such a thing as natural variability, such as what caused the MWP and the LIA?
    “The Arctic Ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some places the seals are finding the water too hot, according to a report to the Commerce Department yesterday from Consul Ifft, at Bergen, Norway. Reports from fishermen, seal hunters and explorers, he declared, all point to a radical change in climate conditions and hitherto unheard-of temperatures in the Arctic zone.”

    “The source report of the Washington Post article on changes in the arctic has been found in the Monthly Weather Review for November 1922. It is much more detailed than the Washington Post (Associated Press) article. It seems the AP heaviliy relied on the report from Norway Consulate George Ifft, which is shown below. See the original MWR article below and click the newsprint copy for a complete artice or see the link to the original PDF below:”
    http://www.sott.net/articles/show/200389-Flashback-1922-Extra-Extra-Read-all-about-it-Arctic-Ocean-Getting-Warm-Seals-Perish-Glaciers-and-Icebergs-Melt-
     
    This must have been a real warm period that lasted a fairly long time and it is historically documented that it did happen.

    “The Norse arrived in Greenland 1,000 years ago and became very well established,” says Schweger, describing the Viking farms and settlements that crowded the southeast and southwest coasts of Greenland for almost 400 years.
    “The Greenland settlements were the most distant of all European medieval sites in the world,” said Schweger. “Then the Norse disappear, and the question has always been: what happened?”

    Cross-sections of the GUS soil show the Vikings began their settlement by burning off Birch brush to form a meadow. Over the next 300 to 400 years, the meadow soil steadily improved its nutritional qualities, showing that the Greenland Vikings weren’t poor farmers, as McGovern and others have suggested. “At GUS, the amount of organic matter and the quality of soil increased and sustained farming for 400 years,” says Schweger. “If they were poor farmers, then virtually all the farming in North America is poor farming.”
    http://www.folio.ualberta.ca/38/16/03.html

    I imagine that the Danes would like to start raising cows and sheep on Greenland again and soon. I do believe that would be a better condition than having the ice sheet back down to the Buffalo Ridge in Minnesota or covering Manhattan; but, for you cold is better than warm while for most life forms that is not the case or 80% of these would not exist in the tropical regions on earth.

    • greenman3610 Says:

      wow.
      Let me reassure you that Charles Miller is not sniffing methane personally. He has instruments to do that for him.

      Finally, allow me to introduce more inspiring videos dealing with the Greenland nonsense.

      the first features Ellen Mosely Thompson, who, I am sure you will not recall, was a co-author with Jason Box on the paper you so unfortunately cherry picked.

      the second demonstrates more ways that climate deniers deceive themselves


      • “wow.
        Let me reassure you that Charles Miller is not sniffing methane personally. He has instruments to do that for him.”
        You are a crafty one Peter to get me to watch this video again where I distinctly heard Charles Miller say; “We can “SEE” methane and even CO2 concentrations”. It is pretty easy to see how I could have interpreted what he said the way I did but I understand that we are not to believe what these people say. Is that what you are now saying? While suffering through all of the conjecture again I found it somewhat strange that since Ben Abbott, who is associated with the UAF, at Fairbanks doesn’t wonder why the Trans Alaska pipe line that is very close to Fairbanks is all up on VSM (Vertical support members) that, through great engineering, were used where ever the pipe line could not be buried because of PERMAFROST.

        I wonder if Ben Abbott had any classes from one of the UAF’s internationally respected scientist, Syun-Ichi Akasofu. I remember when I lived in Fairbanks all of the work that he was doing out at Poker Flats. He founded the International Arctic Research Center (IARC) and they even named the building after him. Is there a building there named after Ben Abbott?

        The professor’s comments on permafrost is interesting because it shows, as I tried to point out to you regarding the pipeline, that there is permafrost far south of the arctic region.

        “Number two, they say, permafrost is melting, and houses are collapsing. What happens is that, when permafrost is in the area, housing is cheap and the land is cheap. When people build a house directly over the permafrost, and then warm the house in the Wintertime, and the ice underneath melts and the house collapses, that’s a man-made effect! It has nothing to do with the greenhouse effect! There are so many mistakes like that”.
        http://www.larouchepub.com/other/interviews/2007/3419dr_akasofu.html

        “. . . climate change, or temperature, has been rising. Somehow the IPCC decided that the increase in the last 100 years is due to the greenhouse effect; however, a significant part of that would be just due to natural change. So, even if we spend lots of money on suppressing CO2 release, it wouldn’t do any good, because it’s a natural change.” Dr.Akasofu
        http://www.desmogblog.com/syun-ichi-akasofu


      • I assume Peter you are wanting sane and educated and, I might add honest people, to totally discount the actual written documentation regarding the Vikings having been on Southern Greenland for at least 300 t0 400 years beginning 1,000 years ago. That evidence is also in the form of the foundations and in some case actual houses and other structures necessary for them to carry on an agricultural based society that under todays climatic conditions is impossible to maintain today. Sorry Peter, but your antidotal little film clips do not expunge this hard evidence from the record.

        I also believe that these folks would be somewhat disturbed at some of your allegations regarding their actual on the ground research that differs from what you desperately want to believe:
        “The University of Alberta, Greenland and the Danish government combined resources and pushed ahead on the first Greenland excavation since the 1930s. The team would excavate the complete site, looking at the entire history and development of the farm, not just the surface buildings.”
        http://www.folio.ualberta.ca/38/16/03.html

        Wait Peter, there is even more evidence for you to dance around about the Vikings and their habitation of the north 1,000 years ago:
        “Evidence of Viking Outpost Found in Canada
        Sharpeners may be smoking guns in quest for New World’s second Viking site.
        For the past 50 years—since the discovery of a thousand-year-old Viking way station in Newfoundland—archaeologists and amateur historians have combed North America’s east coast searching for traces of Viking visitors.

        Archaeologists have long known that Viking seafarers set sail for the New World around A.D. 1000. A popular Icelandic saga tells of the exploits of Leif Eriksson, a Viking chieftain from Greenland who sailed westward to seek his fortune. According to the saga, Eriksson stopped long enough on Baffin Island to walk the coast—named Helluland, an Old Norse word meaning “stone-slab land”—before heading south to a place he called Vinland.”
        http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/10/121019-viking-outpost-second-new-canada-science-sutherland/

        Did your hero, Richard Alley, slip up when he mentioned the Romans making lead in Northern Europe which occurred during Roman Warm Period. Physical and historical facts are damn hard to get around to try to maintain a flimsy hypotheses that if it had validity folks would not have to rely on distorting the facts to try to maintain.


  5. Peter; Why are you so afraid to admit that the known climatic cycles of the past were world wide? I know, if you admit to that then your hypnosis of everything being caused by CO2 becomes a moot and meaningless assertion; well, so be it, and get use to facing up to the FACTS.

    “Polynomial cointegration tests of anthropogenic impact on global warming”
    “…our rejection of AGW is not absolute; it might be a false positive, and we cannot rule out the possibility that recent global warming has an anthropogenic footprint. However, this possibility is very small, and is not statistically significant at conventional levels.”
    http://www.earth-syst-dynam-discuss.net/3/561/2012/esdd-3-561-2012.html

    An ikaite record of late Holocene climate at the Antarctic Peninsula
    “…… This ikaite record qualitatively supports that both the Medieval Warm Period and Little Ice Age extended to the Antarctic Peninsula.”
    http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2012E%26PSL.325..108L

    While I have never been to Chile have visited its neighbor nation of Peru and I know that both of them have a coastline on the Pacific ocean.
    “Late Holocene air temperature variability reconstructed from the sediments of Laguna Escondida, Patagonia, Chile (45°30′S)
    The temperature reconstruction from Laguna Escondida shows cold conditions in the 5th century (relative to the 20th century mean), warmer temperatures from AD 600 to AD 1150 and colder temperatures from AD 1200 to AD 1450. From AD 1450 to AD 1700 our reconstruction shows a period with stronger variability and on average higher values than the 20th century mean. Until AD 1900 the temperature values decrease but stay slightly above the 20th century mean. Most of the centennial-scale features are reproduced in the few other natural climate archives in the region. The early onset of cool conditions from c. AD 1200 onward seems to be confirmed for this region.”
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0031018212006517

    • greenman3610 Says:

      you did it again.
      Be careful, someone will start to think I’m paying you to make deniers look stupid.
      Once again, I’ll just take the one that I know is utter nonsense, the “Ikaite record” nonsense, because I
      contacted the scientist involved directly, and got his statement, which was
      posted here. (pays to do the reading)
      http://climatecrocks.com/2012/03/28/the-daily-mail-major-fail-scientist-sets-record-straight-on-medieval-warming-research/

      “It is unfortunate that my research, “An ikaite record of late Holocene climate at the Antarctic Peninsula,” recently published in Earth and Planetary Science Letters, has been misrepresented by a number of media outlets.

      Several of these media articles assert that our study claims the entire Earth heated up during medieval times without human CO2 emissions. We clearly state in our paper that we studied one site at the Antarctic Peninsula. The results should not be extrapolated to make assumptions about climate conditions across the entire globe. Other statements, such as the study “throws doubt on orthodoxies around global warming,” completely misrepresent our conclusions. Our study does not question the well-established anthropogenic warming trend.”

      and I added, gratuitously
      “In one of the clearest demonstrations in memory of the gullible and credulous nature of the the pathetic yokels that frequent such sites as Wattsupwiththat and Climatedepot, this obviously distorted meme was picked up and broadcast uncritically (remarkable, considering the source) around the world.”

      thanks for proving, again , the yokel theory of climate denial. a
      and once again, I totally deny that I’m paying you to do this, in case anyone wondered.


      • Peter: I can almost feel sorry for you and tell how hurt you must be that no one seemed to pay much attention to your big exposé regarding Ikaite. One can only wonder that if the reports on it in various respected science journals did not immediately take the results of their finds down upon learning of your findings is strange, if anyone felt that there was any fraud or an attempt being made to distort the truth. Could it be that none of the other authors or who they were affiliated with really cared what Lu Z. thought? It sure seems like it when this is taken into consideration:
        SAO/NASA ADS Physics Abstract Service
        Title:
        An ikaite record of late Holocene climate at the Antarctic Peninsula
        Authors:
        Lu, Z.; Rickaby, R. E.; Kennedy, H.; Pancost, R. D.; Shaw, S.; Lennie, A. R.; Wellner, J. S.; Anderson, J. B.
        Publication:
        American Geophysical Union, Fall Meeting 2011, abstract #PP51A-1819
        Publication Date:
        12/2011
        Origin:
        AGU
        Keywords:
        [0726] CRYOSPHERE / Ice sheets, [1041] GEOCHEMISTRY / Stable isotope geochemistry, [1051] GEOCHEMISTRY / Sedimentary geochemistry, [4901] PALEOCEANOGRAPHY / Abrupt/rapid climate change
        “Our interpretation, based on ikaite isotopes, provides additional qualitative evidence that both the Medieval Warm Period and Little Ice Age were extended to the Southern Ocean and the Antarctic Peninsula.”
        http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2011AGUFMPP51A1819L

        <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
        SAO/NASA ADS Astronomy Abstract Service
        (same title, authors and list of affiliations)
        Publication:
        Earth and Planetary Science Letters, Volume 325, p. 108-115. (E&PSL Homepage)
        Publication Date:
        04/2012
        Origin:
        ELSEVIER
        Keywords:
        ikaite, hydration water, stable isotope, Holocene, Antarctic Peninsula
        "This ikaite record qualitatively supports that both the Medieval Warm Period and Little Ice Age extended to the Antarctic Peninsula."
        http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2012E%26PSL.325..108L

        <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
        Earth and Planetary Science Letters
        Volumes 325–326, 1 April 2012, Pages 108–115
        View full text
        Purchase $39.95

        An ikaite record of late Holocene climate at the Antarctic Peninsula
        http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.epsl.2012.01.036, How to Cite or Link Using DOI
        "This ikaite record qualitatively supports that both the Medieval Warm Period and Little Ice Age extended to the Antarctic Peninsula."
        http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0012821X12000659

        Please note that they, as well as many other sources, not only did not take down ANYTHING but continued to repot their findings.(note that this last one wants $39.95 to do so) You can launch into another diatribe such as what you did; but, how meaningful is it when the FACTS that were reported still stand? I would guess that Martin Lack can help you out on that.

        • greenman3610 Says:

          you are welcome to misread and distort anything you like.
          I’ll continue to stumble along getting info straight from the scientists themselves.


          • In regards to what I presented to you about the ikaite record and you say “you are welcome to misread and distort anything you like.
            I’ll continue to stumble along getting info straight from the scientists themselves.” and that really has me wondering at exactly what it is I am distorting when the information I presented comes from the published documents regarding this issue that should not cause anyone so much discomfort, unless they have much to hide and try to distance themselves from.

            You maintain that “Generally, when I am confused about what the science literature says, which happens a lot – I go the authors for clarification.” which you apparently did by getting these comments from ONE of the contributing scientist regarding this study, Zunli Lu:
            “It is unfortunate that my research, “An ikaite record of late Holocene climate at the Antarctic Peninsula,” recently published in Earth and Planetary Science Letters, has been misrepresented by a number of media outlets.
            http://climatecrocks.com/2012/03/28/the-daily-mail-major-fail-scientist-sets-record-straight-on-medieval-warming-research/

            Peter, now you have me confused. I would assume that Zunli Lu is speaking for himself only and not for the other members of the team: Rickaby, R. E.; Kennedy, H.; Pancost, R. D.; Shaw, S.; Lennie, A. R.; Wellner, J. S.; Anderson, J. B. because when one goes to the link in the body of what is on your blog, this is what one finds as a summation of the abstract:
            “This ikaite record qualitatively supports that both the Medieval Warm Period and Little Ice Age extended to the Antarctic Peninsula.”
            http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0012821X12000659

            If it is possible to distort and misread this, I wonder just how it could be done when the summation seems extremely brief and well stated.
            “It is impossible to speak in such a way that you cannot be misunderstood.”
            Karl Popper

            I will state this: You are by far more open minded and willing to debate issues than any of your fellow alarmist blog site owners and I do enjoy our exchanges and actually I do learn from them; but, not in the way that you would want to imagine.
            “The growth of knowledge depends entirely on disagreement” Karl Popper


  6. Washington Post and National Geographic for references? larouche.pub? No wonder Peter thought this was a joke.

    Back to the subject. Yes there is a shift in the Sunday Show take. I watched a PBS show on KCSM. I wrote a reference to ideasinactiontv.com. A nuke shill touted BS about his opinion that Germany’s exit from the nuke scene would result in power shortage and excess CO2. Too bad he did not check his facts on this website. All the NRDC spokesman could say was, nukes were expensive. I was outraged. Many have said that Koch bros have influenced PBS in an unhealthy way.


    • “Washington Post and National Geographic for references? larouche.pub? No wonder Peter thought this was a joke.”

      Christopher Arcus: It would be advisable for you to contact someone that can read and have them explain just what the reference to the Washington Post states.

      “The source report of the Washington Post article on changes in the arctic has been found in the Monthly Weather Review for November 1922. It is much more detailed than the Washington Post (Associated Press) article. It seems the AP heaviliy relied on the report from Norway Consulate George Ifft, which is shown below. See the original MWR article below and click the newsprint copy for a complete artice or see the link to the original PDF below:”

      While you have the aid of someone that can read, please have them explain to you that the National Geographic was founded 125 years ago and its 2ND president was some one who you probably never heard of, Alexander Graham Bell, and question them about the research they are doing regarding verifiable evidence of the Vikings having had settlements on Baffin Island and archaeologists have long known that Viking seafarers set sail for the New World around A.D. 1000. As far as the interview that Dr. Syun-Ichi Asasofu sat for goes, I assume that if he had sat down with “Media Matters” or “Rolling Stone” that would have somehow given more weight to his remarks.

      Then you say “Back to the subject.” when I do not recall the subject of this thread ever having mentioned anything about Nukes but it allowed you get a jab in at the Kock brothers who were also never mentioned here until you brought them up. I have heard about the need to get on the same page but in this case you need to get in the same book.


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